I wouldn't take probuilds for champions like yi either, then you end up having some pro trolling around with yi who is clueless about the champion. If anything I would go to lolskill.net, check the highest ranked yis out and then check their matchhistory on op.gg/lolking out and look what they build.

Besides I told DD before, you have to THINK. For example in your game, they were full AD with Zed/Jax etc.

That would make Deadmansplate + Sterags really strong, or the more dmgheavy route would probably be a Mecurial Scimitar.

Just looking up a guide and copying without thinking for yourself won't get you anywhere.

Once again I repeat myself, ask yourself questions:

-"Do I need more Damage?"
-"Do they have a lot of CC --> is a QSS worth?"
-"What type of defensive stat should I build if any?"

etc.

i mean builds ultimately have a ton to do with the enemy team comp as nisash said, to be clear

or who is fed

if they are all AD except for their 0/8/1 ori with 5 CS, you probably dont need a spirit visage (although you might later)

My take on that game in chronological order-

-You start double golems and smite them, which is ok I guess. Then you go straight to red, though, which doesn't make any sense. Going straight to red afterwards means you spend your whole jungle clear low on hp because you use your second smite on wraiths instead of red (not to mention how much time and mana you waste meditating because you're so low).

-When Jax jumps on your blue right as you are about to start it, you just kind of stand there, when you should have been running immediately. You had it warded already- ping it out and then retreat to a safe distance. You were very lucky with how it turned out.

-After Jax died you started the blue buff anyway at extremely low health, to the point that you had to meditate in the middle and run away after killing it without actually killing the small mobs, letting them reset and then coming back to meditate and finish them up. Just up to this point in the game you have already wasted an incredible amount of time simply because of sub-optimal pathing.

-When you leave base to start your second jungle clear you go through mid and start at wolves. This is another instance of sub-optimal pathing. Especially on farm junglers like Yi where presumably you're going to be doing full jungle clears, you want to start at either double golems or the gromp, as then you can run a line across the map clearing all 4 camps. If you start wolves or wraiths you immediately have to decide to either go clear the other pack on that side of the map (in which case you then have to spend more time running all the way back across the map), or go to the other half of the map and only clear 3 camps.

-At ~7 minutes you go to clear wraiths and for some reason you ward the bush by your wraiths. It seems like a small thing, but that is a poor use of your available resources. It is extremely unlikely that that ward would be of any use at that point in the game- instead you could have placed it on the top side river brush by mid lane for your mid laner, or in the tri bush for your top laner.

-Next you attempt to gank top. The gank was extremely questionable- without Renekton's ult up it was extremely likely that he was going to get killed pretty quick if he went in (which he did) considering how low he was to start the gank. What followed was pretty brutal. Obviously you should not have chased under tower, but I have to ask- what exactly were you even thinking??? You were not in range to alpha strike to him and did not have boots or flash so there was no way you were going to reasonably make up that distance. Failed ganks are painful for sure, but you have to be able to make tough decisions of when to cut your losses like that. Instead you fed an already ahead Xin a double kill.

-I just noticed this one, but on your first back you bought the stupid hunter's potion thing, which you should seriously never need on Yi. Once he gets past the first couple levels he has more than enough sustain in jungle to not have to waste gold on that item. That gold could have been much better spent on an early pink to place either in the single bush in bottom side river or maybe a deep ward in their bottom side jungle (the bush to the left of their double golem pit). Also, I just noticed that you bought skirmisher's saber as well, which should have been stalker's blade.

-At ~12 minutes you move to help orianna in the river just above mid, but are not able to get there in time. At that point you go back to your jungle to clear more camps. Wolves, wraiths, and double golems are up. Unless you have reason to believe your top side camps are going to be imminently counter jungled, the path to optimize your time spent would be to go to wolves first, then wraiths, then double golems. Instead you go to wraiths first, which is probably the worst possible choice you could have made.

This is about as far as I have time to go, and I'm sure there are things that I missed. It's important to note that none of the things that I mentioned are champion specific or really all that difficult. Most of it is just basic jungle pathing type stuff. Each individual decision may seem very small, but over time they add up. If you are constantly wasting time every game you are going to fall behind.

Or ask yourself "What do I need to build this game?"


*edit* oops it was on page 2. I hate that

Oh my. Haven't played a game in almost 2 months, and then it was like 2 years before that.

I'm terrible again. And for some reason, I couldn't get my fps above 24. Not a steady 24 either. Bounced from 6-24. Safe to say that I caused my team to lose when I go 0-3 while being camped in bot lane. Fun times.

Fixed the fps problem.

Okay well try this one then. I want to know how this game was carryable as support. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE enlighten me.

http://www.replay.gg/search/na/Systolic#2046902050

Thanks for taking the time to write this. I have a bunch of questions but I guess the pervading question is 'Why?'. You gave a lot of things I was doing wrong but I don't see why. Like doing the upper camps instead of wolves... I don't understand how I was wasting time with that. Whats a better initial jungle route than the one I took? I know the dive was bad but I didnt know yi's ranges yet so I figured I would try to make the kill happen to see if it worked... Kind of an experiment.

2:35ish. You shield yourself to save 70 hp. You don't time it right and you take the damage. Now your shield is on cooldown.

Vayne gets grabbed. Sucks. Once you let them zone you, you're pretty resigned to just letting the wave push and getting the cs you can get.

While vayne is gone, Blitz misses a hook on you. You get the cannon minion which is good, but you miss a few cs that you could have gotten with pretty much zero harass. Minimal mistake though.


4:15 Since vayne isn't doing it, you can auto the caster minions once before the tower hits them to ensure she can get the last hit. This is more advanced and maybe not something you should focus on, but I'm just pointing out things as I see them while I watch this replay for you. I'm not trying to be nit-picky.


4:42 Blitz is out of position and trist is almost in melee range last hitting while taking zero harass. You can get autos in here. Not only is it good to harass and not let the enemy get a bunch of free stuff with zero penalty, you can hit her for your bonus charges on your spellthief's for gold.


4:55-5:05 Blitz smashes his hook into a minion. Your minions are all on their last hits. Trist needs to use the next 4 or 5 autos to last hit. You two can go aggressive on her. There is zero danger. You have shield and tornado. Vayne can chunk her way down. Even if you trade autos with trist, you have shield to negate a lot of that and give you or vayne extra AD for more damage on her. She can trade autos or she can last hit her cs. Instead, you two sit far back and let her get free cs.


6ish you get caught warding. You have to assume he's in there. You get out fine and short of burning flash, hp-wise you guys actually win the trade because Vayne does the right thing and retaliation trades onto Trist.

8:30, a quick glance at the map when you engage Yi shows that you could have run towards Lee. If you were scared that Blitz and Trist were coming you would have also seen that Vanye was coming up and Ekko was coming a little later to the party with Malz following. Run to lee and it's 4v2 for a bit. In most cases, you and Lee can kill the Yi before everyone else gets there. Anyway, unfortunate timing on your ult where Yi dodges with his Q and sticks to you. Your Lee dies, Vayne dies, and Ekko dies.



Now, I don't know exactly when you bought it, but you build an Amp Tome instead of starting toward your sightstone. I approve of the buying of the pink. More people need to do that, but right now you have very little control of your jungle. Not your fault, but you can try to get some wards in your jungle. It's completely dark from mid lane to your tier 2 turret and you guys are pushing further away.



10:40 Great tornado. I like it! Before that fight happened though, you guys wandered through lots of jungle/river area that you just lost a big fight in moments before. You HAVE to assume that is all warded, even if the enemy doesn't seem competent enough to be doing the right thing.


11:40 Tell Vayne to Freeze the lane. If she keeps autoing on cooldown after you tell her to freeze, then tell her just to last hit and not to push. You'll ward for her safety and then once you set up vision for her, you can roam. She's safe there. If she freezes, there nearly zero chance she will die in the next few minutes while she farms.



Meanwhile, your team is derpy as ****. Your Lee is terrible, and your Renekton doesn't know how to play against Illaoi. It's frustrating to watch, but you can ask them to play safe (and just ignore them from then on if they start to argue with you or tell you to stfu in a toxic way).


12:20 your Vayne wanders into Yi's face because of lack of vision. I'm not saying that's your fault, but it's something you can help prevent. That's how to carry from support. If you can keep your teammates from making mistakes that they would normally make if you weren't there, then you're helping way more than you know. Good defensive ult, well played given the situation.

12:50 your dumb level 7 Renekton uses his gap closer to dive into (knowingly) at least 3 of them. Sigh.

In the ensuing fight, remember that they can't hit you if they're hitting your teammates. You might be too far back. I know Janna doesn't get the most damage from her autos, but every bit counts and your presence in a fight like that might force the enemy off the fight. Even at low hp, the three of you could have defended the turret, even if one of you dies. You'd likely get a double kill or at least push them off the turret at no loss. Lee goes in after they leave from under the turret and dies, and then Renekton does the same thing. Here you might say "Fight under turret. No reason to leave turret range" or something.

15 Minutes in and still no sightstone. I see a pink in your inventory. I don't know if you ever placed the one you bought earlier or if this is another one.

I watched a little more but at this point your Renekton and Lee don't want to win. They just want to jump in and try to blow their load on someone.





So yeah, it might seem like that game was unwinnable with those two on your team, but the Vayne seemed pretty competent for the level of elo. There are a few things that could have been done earlier in the game to give you guys more of a chance. I'm not saying that game hinged on your play, but can you see how there are a bunch of things that you personally could have done to increase the likelihood of winning that game? That's all you can control.

Maybe the early stuff from minutes 2-5 could have won you guys the bot lane. The pressure of your lane may have drawn Yi down there instead of helping snowball against Lee and Renekton. Maybe that fight at your blue/jung could have been the fight where you guys go 4 for 0, get drag, and start to build a lead overall, even with Renekton being behind.


There are lots of variables, and it's easy to look at the obvious glaring mistakes that Renekton and Lee were making, but the only way to consistently do better is to look at your own plays and try to get better. No one is saying that you should have gone 10/2/20 kda and brutalized the enemy into submission. You just have to be better than the average person in your role and you will win more games than you lose over a large sample size.



*edit* Sorry this is so long. I wanted to add one or two last things I noticed throughout the laning phase that weren't specific to any one time-stamp. You need to learn that once an enemy uses their cooldowns, they can't do anything to you after that. There were several times that trist used her E on you or Vayne, or Bltiz missed a hook and you guys would back away for like 10 seconds before coming back in to last hit. You need to take that time to get up in there and harass them back or get that cs while you safely can.


I'm just a silver scrub. I'm sure anyone else on here could have picked it apart way better than I did. I tried to include some positives in there so it didn't seem like I was just "telling you how awful you are". When I watch my replays I'm always like "holy **** really? God, I'm terrible" lol.

I assume this is referring to the 2nd to last point? Apparently (didn't watch replay) you had 3 camps up and chose to go to the middle one first, going to wolves first means you can go straight to wraith then golems and clear all 3 camps without running back and forth between them.

Looks like he wants you to go Golems -> Wraith -> Red because you'll end up using your 2nd smite on red which gives you HP back which means you can clear more of your jungle before backing.

Watching you lane is extremely painful, you put your ADC into an extremely high pressure situation with your positioning and play.

You sit in the bush do nothing, then once you decide to walk out eat some poke, misstime the shield and your ADC gets hooked. Once again you make the mistake in giving your ADC all the blame, you don't realize that you put him into an extremely tough position.

You don't attack minions to help your ADC cs, you don't throw out any tornadoes, all you do is sit in lane doing nothing. Ofc your ADC is gonna get dumpstered if he has to lane 1 v 2.

I mean I'm not a Janna main, I doubt you start shield in that matchup, if you do you have to communicate to your vayne that you will shield her and that she should go aggressively for trades with shield. You have to autoattack the blitz, harass him when his hook his down. Throw out tornadoes etc.

Janna at early levels is so extremely annoying in lane because she nullifies you while poking pretty hard cause at low level everyones AA does damage

Well thats my 4th or 5th janna game so Im not surprised I was bad. My best champs are taric and velkoz, but since so many people here seem to think those are bad champs Ive been trying out some new stuff. I honestly feel like I have been getting worse by listening to the people here.

You did the same when you played Velkoz, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that somewhere that I watched one of your velkoz games.

And your advice is hypocritical. You say NOT to throw out my abilities because of the cooldowns and then you say Im wrong for not doing it.

Just for the record, I get a really arrogant vibe from your posts almost as if you think I'm not intelligent enough to understand the concepts you are suggesting. Your 'help' has been more trenchant than anything and has mostly consisted of 'you're bad and here are the things that are bad'.
'attack minions to help your adc cs'. Do you realize how vague that is? I don't even know what you mean by that. Most of the time if I attack creeps my lanemates get mad that I am messing up their farm.

No I said all you did was throw out abilities on CD, then afk in the back and wait till your CDs are back. You don't use autoattacks on your ranged supports.

At this point I'm awfully annoyed by you, because all you do is talk rather than do.

If you post stuff like that, well then don't be suprised people aren't friendly towards you.

Yeah because when I try to I always get autoattacked by the ADC and since I do far less damage than they do I dont see the point.

Nobody's telling you to not use your abilities, you just have to be aware that when you use it you are more vulnerable and the opponent might respond to that, but having full mana is almost always bad, you might as well throw out some Q's to try to get some free poke

I'm not saying that you guys are wrong or bad I'm just saying that I am not implementing the advice very well.

you should auto attack trade with a melee support not with the adc

If you want to climb don't learn new champs in ranked, play some normals until you feel comfortable enough to play ranked with them.

Ranged minions die to 1 tower hit + 2 auto attacks, if you're pushed under the tower early you should attack ranged minions that the tower attacks once so your adc can last hit after the tower hits. (it's only important early, once your adc gets some AD he can just last hit after the tower hit on his own)

Thats why I need a one on one coach. I ask lots and lots of questions, I challenge ideas by nature (because I like understanding the justifications behind people's reasonings and I want to separate the legit info from the speculative), and I need to see things demonstrated in such a manner that I can respond in real time. I promise you that I read and attempt everything you guys are saying but I'm clearly not doing it right.

I typically dont but I'm just punting these last few weeks of the season.

That makes a lot of sense, but if I am pushed to my tower how do I do this without getting harassed by the other team? I mean it stands to reason that if I help my adc farm then I am not using my autoattacks to harass champions right? How do you find a balance?

Usually when you're pushed in there is no point to harass since you're going to lose the trade or lose a lot of minions. Neither are a good option.

It's important to notice when and how to trade. Dodging their abilities while applying your own damage successfully is key. Maybe play some mid or top games in a normal game so you don't have the 2v2 environment but the 1v1 and learn how to trade effectively.

For example if their blitz grabs your ADC you, as janna, can slow the enemy, tornado the enemy and shield your own ADC. Maybe the trade isn't as good but you aren't letting them run over you.

Also standing in the brush is not that bad for a support to do IF you manage to abuse the fog of war. If you're a hook champion it's much more effective than a disengage champ like Janna. You can charge your tornados in the fog of war though.

A big thing for a support is to adapt to their ADC. Every ADC is different and some may play way more aggressive and others may want to farm more (depends on the champ too). If you see your ADC farm under tower and do his thing, then go roam, ward or do whatever! It's important to roam as a support because it's unexpected, can win you the game, and provides map pressure. Don't do this when your ADC is guaranteed to die.

I sometimes play with a leona main (premade on skype) and she ganks my lane 3-4x a game without denying our ADC. It isn't a recipe for succes but we manage to win more games than we lose. That leona effectively wins our bot and mid lane.

Another thing to remember is that, as Janna, when you are really early in the game just poking the enemy a lot can cause them to misplay/play scared thus giving you the advantage. The main point is to actively try to increase the chance you win the game rather than passively stand in the bush waiting for something to happen.

RE: the second point- it's just a judgement call. Yea, if you're laning against a cait/lulu lane or something like that where they have very strong poke and they've pushed you under the tower you may not find it worth it to try to auto all the cannon creeps to help your adc farm. However, it's important to note that if the opposing lane is pushing so much that not only are they pushing each wave to the turret, but they are also standing at turret trying to poke you down then that means they are putting themselves in a very dangerous position. In such a scenario it is helpful to relay that information to the jungler (not like "hey, gank our ****ing lane useless jungler", but something more like "bot is pushing to the turret and staying every wave if you can make it down here to gank") and doing your best to stay at a reasonable health total until the jungler gets there.

N/o but I feel you ask questions more to be argumentative and you need a really patient teacher than you really ask them to understand.

Eg:

So you attack the adc (if you can) when he has to last hit. Either he can't answer or he loses the CS. This information was already in this thread, but you seem to need it spoonfed.



Because most of the time you aren't pushed under tower, obviously. When the wave is in the middle and they jam it in wanting to get it under tower, your job is (if you can) to AA a bit so it freezes before the tower. If hit full health minions your ADC isn't hitting, no ADC will be annoyed.

League is fluid, situations are always slightly different. Sometimes you need to help with the wave, sometimes you need to get harrass in. Nobody is going to be able to give you a 100% correct flowchart for when to do what.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, I just feel like pointing out you are not this set-in-stone-personality that can only learn from 1-on-1 instruction ever, always. That will hold you back. Learn to be open to advice and proactively seek for reasons why it might be correct rather than reasons for why it might be bad or hypocritical and you'll improve a lot faster - in everything. You act like people owe you a max effort to get you to learn something, that's both annoying and not true.