Well I'm at least half way there. Got a les paul. *CoughEpiphoneCough*

If one wanted to be able to play bass and guitar well, would most of the folks here recommend just learning guitar?

if you do make sure to learn lead guitar as well so you can do walking bass lines and improvise licks on bass imo

Yeah just play lead bass like John Entwistle and you have the best of both worlds!

ok, another basic question. scales. how do you guys learn scales (the 5 patterns, pentatonic first....) and practice them regularly. what exercises do/did you do to really master them. i hated scales learning the trumpet, but came to understand their profound necessity.
also, i can't seem to memorize the notes on the damn fretboard either. what methods have worked for some people here.
i am trying to build a good solid practice routine. a good warm up that gets my fingers loose and works on dexterity. then want to work on scales and fretboard memorization, then ??? then work on any songs i might want to learn or rocksmith. thanks

Another noob question: I always hear guitarists talking about sound like warm, fat, crunchy, chunky(?): how does one develop their ear to understand wtf this means? Is there an online resource for it?

For notes you should be good to go if have a music theory base.

Once you know that in concert pitch the strings are from Lowest E (As in pitch) it is EADGBE, then it is one fret for every half tone/step, you can practice just running notes up the neck naming the notes as you go. that is basic but it's good for rote memory.

Blues scales are good to start with because they are simple. You can chuck any old blues CD on and jam away within that particular key. I mean BB King made a living out of effectively playing in one key! He's decent at it though, so props to him!

Once you are playing barre chords you will note your position on the fret board eg. G is played with your barred finger across the third fret from the positioning of the rest of the chord you will roughly visualise where the notes of that scale are. There are more than that obviously but it will give you an idea.

Then you need to connect scales as the progression moves on. So for a basic "A" 12 bar Blues it would go from A to D back to A, to E then to D then back to A.

So using "E shaped" barre chords I would shape the A on the 5th fret, the D on the 10th fret and the E on the 12th fret. A basic link between the chords there would be contained withing those formings of the chords moving from 5th fret, to 10th and 12th and so on. I am not sure that I explained that well.

If you get used to using tabs it can help too, though I would balanced it with music theory and ear training as they are very important.

eg. (Courtesy of How to Read Guitar tabs.net)

A Blues Scale Position 1. Root note on 6th string, 5th fret

E||--------------------------5-8---||
B||----------------------5-8-------||
G||----------------5-7-8-----------||
D||------------5-7-----------------||
A||------5-6-7---------------------||
E||--5-8---------------------------||

A Blues Scale Position 2. Root note on 4th string, 7th fret

E||-------------------------------8-10-11-||
B||--------------------------8-10---------||
G||--------------------7-8-9--------------||
D||---------------7-10--------------------||
A||----------7-10-------------------------||
E||--8-10-11------------------------------||

A Blues Scale Position 3. Root note on 5th string, 12th fret

E||-------------------------------------10-11-12---||
B||-------------------------------10-13------------||
G||--------------------------9-12------------------||
D||-----------------10-12-13-----------------------||
A||-----------10-12--------------------------------||
E||--10-11-12--------------------------------------||

A Blues Scale Position 4. Root note on 5th string, 12th fret

E||--------------------------------------12-15---||
B||-----------------------------13-15-16---------||
G||-----------------------12-14------------------||
D||--------------12-13-14------------------------||
A||--------12-15---------------------------------||
E||--12-15---------------------------------------||

A Blues Scale Position 5. Root note on 6th string, 5th fret

E||--------------------------3-5---||
B||--------------------3-4-5-------||
G||----------------2-5-------------||
D||------------2-5-----------------||
A||------3-5-6---------------------||
E||--3-5---------------------------||

Great post

I always hear people say that once you know some scales, making various chords is easy. (too tipsy to know if that's even the right word) is that true? If so, how is it true?

It's all BS really.

And it's all relative. One man's trash is anothe man's treasure etc etc.

To me;

Warm is usually derived from valve amps but clean and non trebly (the sort of smooth tone that makes you want weep for joy - Stevie Ray type tone.)

Fat is wide and bassy

Crunch/Chunky is that distorted guitar the rings off short - like not super sustain/ more staccato and rhythmic

this is from an article on premier guitar magazine:

Fat/Round - to me, fat and round are the same – well defined, sustained, loose, wide or well-dispersed, good depth.

Tight - percussive, holds together very well, fast and responsive.

Chunky - falls in-between fat/round and tight; defined, sustained and loose, but not to the degree of fat/round. It’s percussive, holds together well and is responsive, but not to the degree of tight.

Muddy - beginning to lose definition and articulation, not clear, poor note separation.

Flabby - (often used in a different way, but not appropriate for this article) no articulation, loss of control and definition, negative term for lacking in bass response.

Boomy/Woofing - blooming response, lingering notes, very loose (car stereo comes to mind here).

I KNEW IT!!

Pretty true.

Look at the form of the scale on the first position in that A blues scale.

If I were playing an "E" shaped barre chord I would barre the 5th fret, so that is all of those "5" notes you see in the scale.

My ring and pinky are on the A and D "7" notes you see.

So that is more than half of the notes in that first position scale.

So long as you learn the difference between major and minor scales than you would be pretty sure what key you are working in from just looking at those notes.

i will def dig into the rest of the post for sure, but this didn't make much sense to me sorry. connecting all the patterns has def been a struggle as well. as well as making a scale move up the neck fluidly. i think this is in part that i can't seem to memorize the notes on the fretboard, but not sure.

As a beginner, you shouldn't worry much about memorizing the notes on the fretboard, or about learning tons of scale patterns. Learn a minor pentatonic pattern, maybe a major scale pattern, and then focus on playing and developing your ear. Learning the various intervals and how to find them on the fretboard is more important than knowing scale patterns. Luckily the intervals on the fretboard are much easier to memorize than scale patterns.

When you have a well-developed ear, whenever you hear a melody or chord you instantly know the intervalic relations between the notes (assuming things aren't too fast or complex). Combine this with fretboard knowledge of the intervals and you can play anything that you hear.

Just look at positons 3 and 4 on that blues scales - they are based on those barre chord formations.

So you know the difference between "A" shaped and "E" shaped barre chords?

What I am saying if I play a chord then the notes that for the chord are contained within the scale.

I'll try to use an example but sorry as i am not a theory based player but say the A major scale is:

A B C# D E F# G# A

If I play just an open "A" chord it possesses: (From the low (pitch) E string, the notes:

E A E A C# & E

If I play an "E" shaped Barre chord at the Fifth Fret (An A) it possesses:

A E A C# E & A

If I play an "A" shaped Barre chord at the 12th Fret (An A) it possesses:

E A E A C# & E ( same as an open A) but it's an octave higher.

So they are formed on notes from that scale and the fact that we can play those chords in those positions means that we can tell where the noted sit on the fretboard.

If you learn the chords you will learn the notes. If you learn the scales you will be able to pick the key/chord and also transpose the scales into any key.

The basics of scales and making chords from scales is really really easy.

Take a piano, just the white keys: C D E F G A B C. That's the C major scale. Or, if you start from the 6th, which is an A, it's the A minor scale.

To build a basic chord you need three different notes, and the basic form of a chord here is triads. Take the major scale, say C major in this case. Choose a starting note from the scale and skip every other note until you have your three. If you start from the root note, or C, you get CEG, which are the three notes that make up the C major chord. Build a triad off of all of the notes the same way, and you'll wind up with:

C, F, and G major chords
A, D, and E for the minor chords
And the oddball, B diminished

So with some messing around you realize that all of these chords work pretty well together give or take the order you put them in. And, amazingly, when you play the C major or A minor scales over them, they work pretty well.

Then as things get more complex there are other scales and modes to work with if you want to sneak some "outside" notes in there, or in the case of a pentatonic scale you're simplifying things by removing a few notes from the major or minor scale.

And I completely agree. Learn a few positions of your pentatonic scale, and then your standard major/minor scales, and just work with that for a long while.

I sort-of wasted a lot of time learning and practicing all kinds of modes and things I really don't use that much. I think it was an Arlen Roth or Satriani article that got me doing all of that, but it didn't really apply to what I was doing that much. I'd write out these 2- and 3-octave modes and practice them, but honestly I never play anything today and think, "yeah now I'm going to go for a Mixolydian flavor here and"... no. Not for me. I should have been playing more Tool songs instead.

I disagree about learning the notes on the fretboard. It can really help with learning theory and intervals. It is not required but it will help in the long run and you will be able to improv better.

For now skip all of the #'s and b's and focus on only the C major scale. For that matter also skip everything above the 12th fret. Also skip the open notes, everyone already knows that they are EADGBE. CDEFGAB - 7 notes, how hard can it be. This will take 7 weeks to master.

Week 1 (15 minutes at a time / however many time a day you feel like it) - Start with the note C, play it on the low E string (8th fret). Next move to the A string and find C there (3rd fret). D string (10th fret). G string (5th fret). B string (1st fret). high E - same as low E (8th fret). Then go back down playing all of the C notes once per string. Keep repeating down and up the strings only the C notes. There will be a pattern that will develop but try not to focus on the pattern, listen and memorize the note and the fret number. Say it out loud or to yourself.

Week 2 add another note (D for example) to your routine until you have all of them by week 7. Don't play any of the open string notes, play them all on the 12th fret instead.

You can also download a free program called fretboard warrior which will test your memory. It is a nice program but it is no comparison to actual hands on learning.

After all of that is done then you can learn the intervals off of the root notes using patterns. Start with the 1st, 3rd, and 5ths. That will give you triads all over the neck. Which means you will be able to play any major chord in multiple places close to wherever you are on the fretboard and on any string.

Want to make the chord minor - simply flat the 3rd (move all of the 3rds down 1 fret) and you have every minor chord all over the neck. Eventually you will learn all of the chord interval formulas and be able to make your own chords without pattern memorization.

By the way when you start learning the patterns for finding the 3rds and 5ths of C major you will find that they are E and G and you will already know where they are on every string. If you concentrate on landing on the chord tones (1st, 3rds, 5ths) when doing improv there will be no way to sound bad. Well maybe you still will sound bad for a while but not a bad as simply droning up and down memorized scales without any thought behind the notes you are playing.

There's really not all that much fretboard to learn, it comes to you before too long one way or the other. I think a working knowledge of the standard major/minor scales and basic chord construction is pretty important though. Not just for theory reasons but also just to get your hands some practice playing certain patterns and moving around the neck.

To do it right and quickly you could grab the Berklee Guitar Method and you'll learn to sight read a bit as you go. The contents aren't as interesting as learning a GNR song but you'll find your way around fast. It starts out with simple C major patterns and then starts going into dyads and chords and different positions, then different keys and so on. I was probably a year into playing when I got them and it didn't take that long to catch on. If you've already started playing you likely know where to find the C on A string or the G on the E string just learning basic chords. You can't avoid learning about the intervals and how they sound, or where to play them, and you'll know what to call them.

that is the funny thing about not getting this instrument very quickly. i played the trumpet for about 20yrs, majored in music ed, and taught for a few years. just struggle with the guitar for some reason. my ear def isn't much of a problem, it is my dumb head that can't wrap itself around the specific 'guitar theory'.

nice. might have to check it out. sounds like it has the right amount of some of the theory i am looking for without being too basic as to feel like i am repeating theory 101 or worse.
thanks all for the advice and perspectives. i love everyones different take on explaining things.

What do you mean guitar theory? If you played trumpet and taught music ed you shouldn't have much problems. Do you mean like fretting problems or physical difficulties in playing the guitar?

just the structure of the notes on the fretboard. it isn't very intuitive for me for some reason. yes, i took plenty of music theory through college. that definitely isn't an issue. the physical part of it i am not getting very quickly either, but it will.

it's never going to happen quickly

once you make peace with that knowledge (grasshopper!) you will be ok

understood. and i def know that. it is just hard coming from a musical background and not picking it up as fast as i think i should. also, i am still at a beginner stage after playing (all put together) about a year and a half. at least 3-4 times practicing/ wk for the last 6-7 months. pretty slow imo. i just don't think i am practicing correctly or on the right things or i would see improvement beyond trying to hit one chord after another smoothly or not being able to figure out what key i am playing in on the guitar (i could tell on paper, but not able to figure it out on the guitar), or basic things that i picked up about on every other instrument i tried to play through college. i will get it, i have no doubt about that. just practicing and struggling with the chords of mary had a little lamb (not kidding) after this long is frustrating.

So where are you at exactly? Do you know the basic G-C-Am-Em-D open chords? And the basic couple of barre chords? (Shaped like an open E/Em or A/Am). Just that by itself opens a lot of doors. Maybe you can grab yourself a Hal Leonard songbook of an album you like and start learning off of that. I cut my teeth on Appetite for Destruction (still have the book too). I was pretty close to the record on most of those songs after a while. I still am actually.

It's really cliche but the more you practice the smoother it gets. Some of those chords you're wrestling with now will be automatic for your hand before long at all. I remember learning barre chords and how I had to tilt my hand at this strange angle and squeeze like hell and it took forever to form the chord. After a while my hand rolled into normal position and I could do it with a light touch, pretty much automatically.

Just worry about two things: getting it correctly and cleanly, and playing in time. The speed and fluidity with will come with time, it's inevitable. I still do it that way when I'm learning things now.

In other words, suck it up and get to work. We've all been there. Just don't quit and you'll be alright, I promise.