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Beginners guitar corner. Beginners guitar corner.

02-24-2012 , 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by analoguesounds
did you really?
yep.
Beginners guitar corner. Quote
02-24-2012 , 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LirvA
Gonso are you a ceramic or an alnico guy iyo?
No hard and fast preference. It really comes down to the pickup in question, how it's wound, what guitar it's going into, and what you're doing with the guitar. Taking inventory around the house I definitely have more alnico varieties but it's such a case by case thing, and there are just more alnicos out there. Also I think ceramics are cheaper, so a lot of crappy cheap pickup brands use them, which probably doesn't help their reputation.

Some nice chap posted a big list of pickups by magnet type, you can peruse for yourself. I don't always know offhand what magnet a given pickup when I'm using it tbh, more popular pickups aside. I own a lot of Alnico 5s, and considering the difference among pickups just within that category alone...


AlNiCo II

Gibson '57 Classic Humbuckers. H

Gibson Burstbucker Models 1, 2, and 3. H

Gibson 490r and 490t. H

Fender Atomic Humbucking. H

S. Duncan AlNiCo II Pro APH - 1. H

S. Duncan Custom Custom SH -11. H

S. Duncan Pearly Gates SHPG - 1. H

S. Duncan AlNiCo II Pro APS-1 or 2. S

Bare Knuckle Stormy Monday. H

Bare Knuckle The Sultan's. S

Bare Knuckle BKP-90. P

HighOrder Custom AlNiCo II. H

DiMarzio Virtual Vintage '54 Pro DP408. S

DiMarzio Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues 2 DP409. S

DiMarzio Virtual Vintage Solo Pro DP414. S


AlNiCo III


Fender Nocaster. T

Fender Original Vintage Noiseless Telecaster. T

Gibson P90 pre 1957. P

Bare Knuckle Apache. S

HighOrder Custom AlNiCo III. H

Lindy Fralin Real 54's. S


AlNiCo IV


Bare Knuckle Abraxas. H

Bare Knuckle The Mule. H

HighOrder Custom AlNiCo IV. H

Lindy Fralin High Output. H


AlNiCo V


Gibson Burstbucker Pro. H

Gibson 498t. H

Gibson P90 starting in 57'. P

Fender Original '57 / '62. S

Fender Custom Shop '69. S

Fender Custom Shop Fat '50s. S

Fender Custom Shop Texas Special. S

Fender Vintage Noiseless. S

Fender Custom Shop '54. S

Fender Vintage Telecaster Noiseless. T

S. Duncan '59 Model SH - 1. H

S. Duncan Custom Five SH -14. H

S. Duncan JB Model SH - 4. H

S. Duncan Jazz Model SH - 2. H

S. Duncan Full Shred SH -10. H

S. Duncan Screamin' Demon SH -12. H

S. Duncan Vintage SSL-1 or 2. S

S. Duncan Hot SSL-3. S

S. Duncan Quarter Pound SSL-4 or 7. S

S. Duncan Custon SSL-5 or 6. S

S. Duncan Vintage P-90 SP90-1. P

DiMarzio Virtual PAF DP196 and 197. H

DiMarzio Fred DP153. H

DiMarzio Breed DP165 and 166. H

DiMarzio PAF Pro DP151. H

DiMarzio Norton DP160. H

DiMarzio Tone Zone DP155. H

DiMarzio Blue Velvet DP170 and 171. S

DiMarzio HS-2 DP116. S

DiMarzio HS-3 DP117. S

DiMarzio Virtual Vintage Blues DP402. S

DiMarzio Virtual Vintage Solo DP404. S

DiMarzio YJM DP217. S

EMG 85. H

Bare Knuckle Holydiver. H

Bare Knuckle Nailbomb. H

Bare Knuckle VH II. H

Bare Knuckle Trilogy. S

Bare Knuckle The Sinner. S

Bare Knuckle Mother's Milk. S

Bare Knuckle BKP-91. P

Bare Knuckle BKP-92. P

HighOrder Custom AlNiCo V. H

Lindy Fralin Vintage Hot. S

Lindy Fralin Blues Special. S

Rio Grande Barbeque Bucker. H

Rio Grande Genuine Texas. H

Rio Grande Buffalo Bucker. H

Rio Grande Half Breed strat. S

Rio Grande Muy Grande strat. S

All John Suhr Guitar Pickups use AlNiCo V Special.


AlNiCo VIII


S. Duncan Alternative 8 SH -15. H

HighOrder Custom option when in stock. H


Ceramic


Gibson 496R and 500T. H

Gibson Dirty fingers. H

Burns Tri-sonic. S

Bill Larwrence L-500XL. H

S. Duncan Custom SH - 5. H

S. Duncan Distortion SH - 6. H

S. Duncan Dimebucker SH -13. H

S. Duncan Invader SH - 8. H

S. Duncan Hot Rails STHR -1B. S

S. Duncan Little '59 ST59 -1B. S

S. Duncan JB Jr. SJBJ-1. S

S. Duncan Hot P-90 SP90-2. P

S. Duncan Custom P90 SP90-3. P

DiMarzio Evolution DP158 and 159. H

DiMarzio Evo 2 DP215. H

DiMarzio Super Distortion DP100. H

DiMarzio Super 3 DP152. H

DiMarzio D Sonic DP207. H

DiMarzio X2N DP102. H

DiMarzio SDS-1 DP111. S

DiMarzio Chopper DP184. S

DiMarzio Cruiser DP186 and 187. S

EMG 81. H

Rio Grande Crunchbox. H

Rio Grande Punchbox. H

Rio Grande Dirty Harry. S

Rio Grande Dirty Harry Jr. S
Beginners guitar corner. Quote
02-24-2012 , 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell42
done
Quote:
Originally Posted by analoguesounds
did you really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell42
yep.

Guitar looks cool. Let us know how it plays when you finally get it.
Beginners guitar corner. Quote
02-24-2012 , 10:19 AM
Some random observations:

I think the Seymour Alnico 2 is a great set in an LP, it's essentially the Slash sound. I really like this pickup best clean-ish or with a little grit added to it. Paradise City intro type playing which in a mix can sound just great. Dig out "Rocket Queen" from GNR, forward to 4:04 for a very good example... that sold the pickup to me a long time ago. As far as heavier playing it's not really me, but you know the GNR sound ymmv.

The rest of the top half on the list of A2s other than the atomic are all really good pickups I've tried in LP type guitars. The Custom Custom though I have in the bridge of a heavy ash Tele Deluxe as I needed something less bright.

The Alnico 5s, there are just so many I've used I don't even know where to begin. In fact it's probably better to let other people learn by experience trying a bunch out, or asking people what they're using where you hear something you like. There are some pretty awesome pickups there, and then there are some pretty crappy ones (The HM3, YJM were just awful in my experience).

Ceramics: The Duncan Distortion is a classic and one of the few pickups I think can excel in a variety of guitars, I have used it in LPs and strat types. I think it's a little bright and is a better in a warm guitar (same with the Alnico JB).

The active EMG 81 I like but comparing to the 85, the active setup is really more of the defining characteristic than the magnet. I think these are exceptional pickups at what they do but kind of a one-trick pony. Very clear and tight, typical metal sound, clean a lot of people call it sterile and I think that's fair, which isn't always a bad thing... for me I just like it for distorted metal. Metallica, Rammstein, whatever. It's definitely earned it's place in a lot of people's guitars though.

Last edited by Gonzirra; 02-24-2012 at 10:32 AM.
Beginners guitar corner. Quote
02-24-2012 , 10:23 AM
WOW, what a list !

For a beginner thread, my best advice would be to keep it well balanced between neck pickup and bridge. I'm not sure but there was a chart on the dimarzio website so that you can see what pickups combination you could make.
Some pickup combination work better than others due to the output of the pickups

http://www.dimarzio.com/pickup-picker
Beginners guitar corner. Quote
02-24-2012 , 11:18 AM
Balance is pretty important, you don't want to have a bridge pickup output twice as loud sounding as the neck.

If you're just starting out and have some decent pickups in the budget, I'd just go with some tried-and-true combo based around a sound you know you generally like. If you play Metallica and Ozzy/Zakk stuff or just metal there's EMGs, if you like the Alice in Chains or similar heavy LP sounds there's the old JB/Jazz combo (among many), if you like SRV-ish stuff and have a Strat there's the Texas Specials, etc etc etc.

Also right now there are a lot of boutique (read: expensive) pickup options out there that run the same gamut of great to awful that more common pickups do, and a lot of marketing to and forum hype, and that will add up real quick if you haven't figured out what you're looking for yet. Some are excellent so I'm not knocking them at all, just saying there are just tons of good options to try that aren't $300 custom-wound sets.

Used pickups are a great way to go and you can find them all over ebay, and they rarely break or anything. Also there's a little company called GFS/guitar fetish which has some pickup sets very cheap, I've come across a number and some are quite good. I only have a set in one guitar at the moment but certainly some decent options there.
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02-24-2012 , 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell42
done
Yeah me too. It's going to take some looking at. Washburn's pretty ok with their low midrange stuff ime but it's been a while. They seem to be struggling to sell stuff as of late though and I've seen a few fire sales, and there don't seem to be many of these.

Expect the pickups and electronics to be cheap import variety, little things like the switch and jack might run into issues after a while, things like that. The tuners figure to be lower quality too. Probably fine as is for a while, and they can be swapped out fairly easily if something goes or you want to upgrade it and really dopify it into a true workhorse guitar over time.

Provided the important stuff is right (like, say, the neck is straight) it looks like a pretty good place to start for less than $200 shipped. It's the standard 25.5" scale which is good if you like the longer Fender scale, has a TOM type bridge setup for a little bit of that sustain I was talking about, the mahogany body with humbuckers will sound a little thicker/heavier than a strat but not into LP-fat territory.

Found one whole review on it from an owner:

Quote:
RX50 is the set neck rocker that is so little and sleek you will love it. Very good stock Duncan USM humbuckers (better than the WI64DL came with).

But the RX50 is made in China and the pickups in the overseas guitars rival American ones any more (look at the Squier Classic Vibe series!). The RX50 can be had with free ship brand new via eBay 'best offer' for $260! Mine was nearly perfect on the setup and almost in tune in the shipping box.

Tuners are not real Grovers (the bottom of their barrel, if so), but look it and are decent. Pots and capacitors are not top flight, but it's easy to replace them, especially the caps for better tone to trim off the bridge pup high frequencies. A good guitar to tune down 1/2 step to make it resonate even more; sustain is impressive.
I expect I'm picking up a set of these right off [they even cut the excess string off for you - not a bad feature when you have a lot of guitars to change strings for]. Haven't decided which pickups I'm going to put in it just yet. $200 for the guitar though lol, that's probably what I'll spend just souping it up. I've spent more than that on pickups before.
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02-24-2012 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heya
I'm tempted by that Ibanez Gonz posted earlier
Out of stock, sorry. The Washburn is still there though, and it's pretty comparable. The Ibby looks cooler but I don't know about that Gibralter bridge it has going on, where I know I get along pretty well with the bridge setup on the Washburn style, for reasons mentioned earlier.

Also I prefer the toggle switch over 3-way, and having knobs a little more out of the way. More than that I appreciate having a tone knob like on the Washburn. There's just a volume on the Ibby and I guess a kill switch, though you could add a tone knob if inclined. Besides looks the only think I like about the Ibanez better is the battery box but that isn't a big deal, you can hide one or two in the back panel of the W easily enough.
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02-24-2012 , 10:04 PM
About the balance issue.

I have a late 60's tele copy.

It's Japanese made named "Esquire" - nice attempt there of just totally ripping fender off!

It has what I believe to be an older Seymour Duncan "Quarter Pounder" style bridge P'up and the regular "Lipstick" style at the neck.

The Bridge puts out way more than the neck and also the neck sound is quite "muddy" and i could never use it in isolation, just blended with the Bridge and even then it's not an ideal sound.

So is it maybe that some one retro fitted the Seymour Duncan P'up and just kept the original "Lipstick" P'up in and they just aren't matched?

I am not that technical so forgive the ignorance but would I be better replacing the neck P'up and if so, with what?

I can provide photos if needed?
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02-25-2012 , 05:25 AM
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/tone-wizard/

go to seymour duncan page. the tone wizard section will give you ideas. you pick your guitar, kind of music you play, etc... and it will give you options
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02-25-2012 , 10:26 PM
cheers mate
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02-25-2012 , 10:46 PM
There's some demand for older Japanese copies, they made really good guitars for a very long time. At one brief point I think all Fenders were Japanese made due to a factory shutdown here or something.

Anyway one way to get an idea as to what you'd need for balance is to identify precisely what the bridge pickup is if you can. Another would be to measure output with an ohmeter which is real easy. Now you typically don't have or want the same output from the neck and bridge because (other things equal) the neck will be louder because of how the string vibrates there. So the pickup will have lower resistance at the neck when balanced.

Also raising or lowering pickups affect things, but with single coils, getting too close can be a problem due to magnet pull on the strings. If the pickups are radically different in output though you'll need to replace one.

If that's a true Quarter Pound or close then yes it's a very hot output pickup. I wasn't a fan. Are you happy with the bridge pickup itself, not just compared to the neck but I mean on it's own?
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02-25-2012 , 10:50 PM
Caveat: I currently own two custom built Teles, and there isn't a single coil in either of them. I am partial to the Area T Hot set for Teles and currently have one as a bridge. Hum-canceling. More expensive, but very nice pickups that solve a lot of problems.

Pretty decent demo, although I know I just said not to buy anything based off of YouTube videos. Here you go anyway. They're kind of bright/strong like that.

Last edited by Gonzirra; 02-25-2012 at 10:56 PM.
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02-26-2012 , 04:03 AM
Yeah the Bridge P'up is awesome. I'm more than happy with it.

It's not a marked P'up - as in it doesn't have the Seymour Duncan Branding, but it has the larger magnets like the Quarter Pounder.

I believe the guitar itself was actually named "Esquire" by the Australian Distributors of that period late 60's early to mid 70's - from some research on a vintage guitar site.

It is a mahogany body, I believe, with a maple neck.

I checked some sound bites on that Seymour Duncan site that elbuennico posted and like the sounds of the Alnico II Pro ones. I will check that link out thanks gonzo.

I'd prefer not to have to replace them both, but it may be hard to get a suitable neck replacement.

Do I have to pull the pick up wires out to test via the meter? Or just the cover?

The problem is that not only is the neck p'up muddy it is also infinitely softer in volume so there is no way of using it live as the balance would be out.

As for the Fender thing, yes I read they moved their manufacturing plant in that period to a Japanese location. There was so much coming out of Japan in that period and a lot of it is rebranded or unmarked or they didn't care about serial numbers/proper referencing. This is just some random jap guitar that was distrubuted here in Australia.

Last edited by analoguesounds; 02-26-2012 at 04:10 AM.
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02-26-2012 , 11:11 AM
I think historically Fender's best produced non American guitars have come out of Japan. My Jaguar was made in Japan and it is very well made.
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02-26-2012 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by analoguesounds
Yeah the Bridge P'up is awesome. I'm more than happy with it.

It's not a marked P'up - as in it doesn't have the Seymour Duncan Branding, but it has the larger magnets like the Quarter Pounder.

I believe the guitar itself was actually named "Esquire" by the Australian Distributors of that period late 60's early to mid 70's - from some research on a vintage guitar site.

It is a mahogany body, I believe, with a maple neck.

I checked some sound bites on that Seymour Duncan site that elbuennico posted and like the sounds of the Alnico II Pro ones. I will check that link out thanks gonzo.

I'd prefer not to have to replace them both, but it may be hard to get a suitable neck replacement.

Do I have to pull the pick up wires out to test via the meter? Or just the cover?

The problem is that not only is the neck p'up muddy it is also infinitely softer in volume so there is no way of using it live as the balance would be out.

As for the Fender thing, yes I read they moved their manufacturing plant in that period to a Japanese location. There was so much coming out of Japan in that period and a lot of it is rebranded or unmarked or they didn't care about serial numbers/proper referencing. This is just some random jap guitar that was distrubuted here in Australia.
The output can be tested with a multimeter at the jack or off the cable, but that's after it's run through the pots and all. It's not really my area of expertise once you get deep into it, so I just take readings off of the pickup leads and play it safe. But there are easy ways for this sure.



If the guitar isn't particularly valuable where you need to keep it 100% vintage, I'd take a good look at what your capacitors and pots look like and consider replacing them while you have it opened up. Does the switch ever act funny, or are the volume or tone pots scratchy? We're talking pretty inexpensive parts.

Not that it's always necessary but I find it's good for piece of mind relatively to cost. A quality 3-way switch, two pots & caps run around $25 here and (unlike what's found on stock import guitars) problems with them are rare. A new output jack is worth considering also. Then when you're done working and you close the guitar up, you'll know everything under the hood is in great shape.

Are you sure it's a mahogany body? That's a little unusual for a tele, and something to think about as far as pickup selection. That's a thicker/darker [muddier] sounding wood than ash or alder, which could be contributing to the muddy sound of the neck pickup. Hotter overwound pickups can contribute to this as well.

Since you like the bridge you might look at a brighter style neck pickup. It would help to know output of the bridge pickup first, and then what kind of resistance the volume pot has. Typically with teles and guitars with single coils you'll see 250k pots to roll off some high end, where on humbucker equipped guitars 500k since a brighter sound helps there. But there are exceptions. In your setup, both pickups are controlled by one volume control so if you're happy with the bridge just as it is, you'd want to consider if the neck pickup is suitable for the same resistance on the pot you're using.

In other words, if you were to buy a neck pickup designed for a 500k pot, running it into a 250k pot and in a mahogany guitar might make it to muddy for you.

Again there's only so far I can go on that subject, if you collect the needed info on your pots, pickup and confirm wood type you could get some decent advice elsewhere.



(You're only really concerned with the first half or so)
Beginners guitar corner. Quote
02-26-2012 , 02:01 PM
Just keep in mind that pots and wood type and everything else will affect what the pickup sounds like in a given guitar. That's why when you hear samples you have to take into consideration how the testbed guitar is in relation to yours. What might sound great in a Les Paul may sound like absolute ass in a Tele, and vice versa. For example I tried a JB pickup in an ash Tele deluxe and it was waaaay too bright.
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02-26-2012 , 07:34 PM
Thnaks gonz that's great info.

I took all of the covers/pick guard off etc so I can just test everything directly.

I will just need to check the videos you posted first to make sure I have my multimeter setting right first.

As for the body - no I am not entirely sure, I am just going off a post from a vintage guitar forum that suggested that. It's an enamelled finish though. I guess I could be wrong there as that is most likely their SG range that were mahagony like the Gibsons used I believe. It could be ash. It looks quite light when I saw the inside when I took the pickups out.

I've never had any scratching from the pots at all. Basically it's just been the lacklusted neck pickup that has been the issue.

I should take some photos. Since we're in different timezones they should be up before you are next online!

Thnaks for your help mate.
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02-26-2012 , 09:47 PM
you get your guitar in yet jmitch?
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02-26-2012 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LirvA
you get your guitar in yet jmitch?
no. i think it should be here wed.
Beginners guitar corner. Quote
02-27-2012 , 01:46 AM
I'm wondering how I could write "thnaks" twice in one post - jesus!
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02-27-2012 , 01:49 AM
bwhahaha
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02-27-2012 , 03:25 AM
Hey Gonsa, I was looking at Les Pauls after learning a new USA studio can be had for $800. On the Gibson website I saw, "The Les Paul Studio ’60s Satin body is Grade C." I saw grades of A and AA on other more expensive Les Pauls. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Elec...60s-Satin.aspx

Do you know much these different grades affect the tone, specifically, on a LP with hot pickups like JB's in it?

I once heard a guy on a youtube vid talking about Fender guitars. He said when Fender gets a shipment of bodies, the custom shop guys get first pick, then the guys building for Fender USA get next pick and the rest are shipped to Mexico and so on. I'm just wondering how much it really matters and if it's a quality that is subject to diminishing returns as far as $$$ spent to sweet tone ratio.
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02-27-2012 , 04:12 AM
I don't think there will be any difference in tone. Grade AA vs Grade A, etc, refer to the appearance of the wood.
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02-27-2012 , 05:51 AM
Aah that makes sense as I saw on one guitar that the body back was grade A and the maple top was AA. I don't care much about the appearance so that solves that.
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