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Old 06-19-2012, 04:20 AM   #31
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

how did you get into this stuff? I'm amaze nice thread though
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:17 AM   #32
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJo336 View Post
This is an awesome thread. I once tried to learn Blender with aspirations of working in animation, but failed royally. You seem to have a better artistic personality. Never worked with/heard of modo. Im assuming it involves animation and not just character modeling?
Yeah Modo is a modeling and animation package, not dissimilar to Blender but better obviously because it's not free. I'd say it's the 4th most popular non-free modeling/animating package after Maya, 3DS max and Cinema 4D.

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how did you get into this stuff? I'm amaze nice thread though
Click through for the TLDR version:

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Originally Posted by Alrighty Roo View Post
TLDR Warning, I'm going for the Full Life Story here.
In case you don't want to read all that I'll try to provide some cliffs:

I'm a film student who after some tedious work experience at a bank decided he'd rather spend his life doing something he would enjoy that just working for money. I'm trying to teach myself all aspects of animation so that I can hopefully get a job at a major animation studio. This project is partially for fun and partially so I can learn some new software and get to grips with lighting, texturing and rendering.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:17 PM   #33
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

Interesting thread, thanks for sharing OP.

I tried animation type stuff once just for fun using Zbrush, I don't know if that programs considered good though, I was just given it for free by a friend. I made models in there and gave them a texture and then uploaded them into another program, but to animate it you had to use scripts and I sucked at scripting so I'd use free scripts. I made pretty simple noob stuff but some people could make awesome things. I wouldn't mind trying out real animation using maya or something but I wouldn't know where to start with it, it looks really complex to use and it costs a bomb!
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:11 AM   #34
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

zbrush is really great for complex modeling. It's the no.1 choice for when people want to model intricate detail. I really love it, it takes almost all the technical boring side out of modeling and just lets you be creative. If you're just trying to do something simple then animate it it's probably better to just do it all in maya/3ds max/modo/cinema 4d
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:21 PM   #35
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

Apologies for the lack of update, clients gonna client. I'm hoping to find some time on the weekend (probably Sunday) to continue with this. Scratch that, I'm definitely going to find some time, somehow. 4 hours minimum. Oh yeah, that's happening.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:32 AM   #36
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

Again it's a case of clients gonna client which seems to have swallowed up a whole week (it doesn't help that I've also been running a game in the POG forum. At the time of planning it I assumed that this time would be free for me and it would be some light relief from working on projects like this all day; unfortunately that hasn't been the case). I'm packing today and moving back down to London tomorrow so I'm not going to get anything done on this until at least Sunday.

However, my client work should almost be done and by almost I mean that they're going to keep trying to get me to do more work for no benefit and I'm going to insist that I'm paid and then leave. I think this is a play they preempted over a month ago hence why I still haven't been paid but the time has come to take affirmative action. I can't let them take any more of my time. I have dinosaurs to build, kangaroos to write about and a career to make. If I have to quit even *without* being paid then at this stage I'd almost take it to get the giant hairy rabid monkey off my back. Oh, you're emailing me AT 1 IN THE MORNING and EXPECTING ME TO UNDO SOMETHING THAT YOU MADE ME DO AT 1AM 10 TODAYS AGO WHEN I TOLD YOU IT WAS A BAD IDEA? LET ME GET RIGHT ON THAT.

I'm quite certain that they have been, shall we say, deliberately 'withholding' payment in an attempt to get me to do more and more work saying 'we'll sort it out at the end' and of course, when you keep changing what the end is then it is never reached. Interestingly the main guy that I've been in contact with has stopped talking about paying me and 'how it'll all be worth it when you see the finished product' as if that being a part of this WONDERFUL PROCESS and having a part in it all is somehow better than ACTUAL PAYMENT. They just want to keep squeezing until they can squeeze no more. I don't regret many things because I'm happy with how my life is going and if I changed one of those things then I think that it would be more likely to make my life worse than better and for reasons that I won't go into I don't completely regret what has happened with these clients the past 3 months but enough is enough. I know the book on business says 'collect early and pay late' but guess what [insert name of client here in shouty block caps], if you pay your talent late on a film set then they're not gonna turn up tomorrow. This might be another lesson I will have to teach them the hard way. I hope not but I have to get paid and they have to learn not to be *******s.

Last edited by Alrighty Roo; 06-29-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:16 PM   #37
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

I stuck it out with my clients for two more days because they dangled money in front of my face. They said if I got x done by the end of the day then they would pay me a specified amount. However over the two days they added y,z and then went back and added w and u as well to the things I had to do. Unsurprisingly this left me without time to complete everything so I'll see if anything materializes or whether it was just a ploy to get me to abandon any other plans I might've have ¬_¬

From tomorrow I'll be without internet access until late on Friday so I won't be able to do any work on this until then but here's some thumbnails to tide y'all over. I think I mentioned previously that I want to do a model/rendering of just larry's head as practice with modo before I do the whole scene so in a few minutes of downtime I doodled a few heads.



This one is, er... interesting. It looks quite feminine, I think it's what Larry would look like if he was female and not so angry. Obviously it's entirely unsuitable for what I'm trying to do but I thought it was worth posting as it's the first thing I drew so probably says something about where my head was at the time, trying to escape the frustration of this client work and show a happy contented dinosaur.


This one came a few significant doodles later. Again, it's not Larry but I think it's interesting. He looks downtrodden, deeply saddened, defeated. Again, I think it reflects where I was at the time of drawing.


As I got into it I forgot about my client woes and started to get closer to what I actually wanted. He's still a bit too angry though. I want him to be aggressive, but due to arrogance as much as anger.


This is probably a little too far the other side, too smug and not angry enough (and the head shapes totally wrong) but I think some combination of the last 2 is what I'll go for.


It's not much but I had to feel like I was doing something whilst I get rid of these clients. An ultimatum: if I'm not done with them by the end of Sunday then I will put a stop to it, one way or another. And I will have a completed image for this by the end of next week GUARANTEED (maybe not the final scene but Larry's headshot at least).
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:26 AM   #38
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

Please don't let lack of replies discourage you. I am still reading and enjoying, and eagerly awaiting the final product.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:23 PM   #39
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

Yeah, keep it up. Just discovered thread so haven't read through everything yet but there isn't enough art outside of music in the art forum imo
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:17 AM   #40
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

eagerly awaiting updates as well.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:05 PM   #41
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

I've pretty much finished with my clients now finally (aside from getting paid ¬_¬). At the moment I'm building a new PC and I set aside the weekend to do it and get Larry's headshot done but I had a surprise visit from my parents on Saturday so by the time I went to bed yesterday my desk and room was still covered in components and boxes.

Neverthless, aside from the GPU (which hasn't arrived yet) the PC is built and a version on Larry's headshot is all but done. It will take a while to write up so I'm going to do it tomorrow, it will be long.

Here's a teaser:

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Old 07-15-2012, 08:23 PM   #42
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

Nice! I'm really looking forward to seeing this come together.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:18 AM   #43
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

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Old 07-16-2012, 07:22 AM   #44
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

aorn it's rendering the different passes which, whilst the image isn't complicated, will take about 20 minutes on my current PC (it should take about 4 minutes on my new one when it's ready). After that's done I've got to do some post processing in photoshop and its' done so whilst it's rendering I'm going to start my writeup.

hehe, it will probably take me 20 minutes just to upload all the images. Post processing and the full write up will take a couple of hours I expect, it will be long!

Last edited by Alrighty Roo; 07-16-2012 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:02 AM   #45
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Re: 3D image project- Larry The Pissed Off Dinosaur Project log- photos, models and more!

Ok, so it's been a while since my last update. Between my clients and moving back to London I'd managed to not do anything on this project since half way through Euro 2012. I'd made a few quickly aborted attempts of Larry's head in modo whilst I tried to get to grips with it but without a good solid block of time to get into it I got nowhere. This time things were different. It was still difficult and frustrating at times but I got there. It's farrrrrrrrrr from perfect but I at least feel like I can use modo now and feel somewhat prepared to produce the big final image. I have to say it was fun to finally be able to sit down and do this.

1) The first step was to make a sphere. I made it with 8x8 segments (generally you want to use as few polygons as you need to keep things quick and manageable) and started making it Larry shaped, keeping symmetry on down the Z axis so that I only have to make adjustments to one side of the model:




Here it is looking vaguely Larry shaped:



It's important to keep the topology of the model as neat as possible, you want smooth straight lines and as-square-as-possible polygons. Polygons that aren't 4 sided throw up all sorts of difficulties as I discovered later. This mini-project is pretty much an exercise in bad topology.

Here I've started to refine the front of the head, making it more dome shaped. I also made the entire head less deep:





^In this screenshot I've selected what's known as an 'edge loop' which is pretty much exactly what it sounds like. It's important to maintain tidy edge loops (many people go as far as color coding them to do this). Here you can see my edge loop is less than ideal. I had to do a lot of tedious work moving individual vertices, edges and polygons one at a time to make my mess look remotetly passable.

Next I start work on Larry's mouth. For this I turn off symmetry because the expression I want isn't symmetrical and if you keep symmetry on for the whole process then the end result can end up looking robotic. I added an edge loop around this area to give me more polygons to work with.





^Here is the basic expression more or less complete. I went for a sort of wry smile thing. I'm not totally happy with it, I think I got caught in two minds and what I was going for isn't clear. The topology of the mouth was a real pain and the cause of about 80% of the problems I encountered.

This next image shows it's not quite as complete as I thought it was, hehe.



I stuck with a fairly head on view when shaping the mouth and as a result I didn't see the polygons get out of whack in the other axis. This shows why it's a good idea to have 4 views visible at one time: e.g. perspective, top, front, right. Until my new PC is finished though I've only got the one monitor so this isn't practical.

As I said, keeping the mouth topology straight proved to be difficult:



Here are two dreaded triangular polygons. These need to be fixed. This is why:



The top image shows the model with subdivisions turned off, the bottom one shows the model with subdivisions turned on. Subdivisions are a way of getting smooth surfaces whilst still keeping the polygon count low resulting in a model that looks nice but remains easy to work with.

Although the triangles don't seem to have a big effect in the first picture, when you turn subdivisions on things get messy. As you can see it doesn't look right, the mouth is thinner where the triangles are. It's good practice to keep subdivisions off when modelling because if a model looks good with them turned off then it will look excellent with them turned on but it's good to turn them on occasionally just to see if anything weird is going on like this. I didn't notice the triangles until I turned subdivisions on. Because of all the problems I had with the mouth I didn't model the whole of the inside of the mouth, for this I can just fill it in during post processing.

When I turned the model around, I was in for a nasty shock:



I still have no idea how this happened. Since the model won't be seen it doesn't really matter but it is a mystery that I don't really want happening again.

Next I start to make eye holes. I deleted 4 polygons (with symmetry back on and subdivisions off), added an edge loop around the hole and then started making the eye shape.



Here the eye socket is practically finished:



Again however, only having one view open cost me:



Btw I think this is pretty much what Larry would look like with glasses. It's not a good look for him.

After some minor correction:




I fill in the holes and his eye sockets are complete.




Next I decide it's time to make the neck. I do this in the stupidest way possible, by just extruding a bunch of faces resulting in the least smooth neck you've ever seen:




I smooth the neck:



Really I should've made the neck much earlier since it's not as much attached to Larry's head as it is part of it. Next time, I guess.


Now I model an eyeball which is a simple sphere squashed a bit in the y axis:



I duplicated it and parented both of them to the main mesh so that they will move where the mesh moves. For this still image it doesn't matter but if I was animating this then it would be essential.

Now I make eyebrows and parent them as well.




Next it's time for what is known as 'UV mapping' which essentially means unwrapping the mesh into a 2D net so that it can be textured. Now since what I want is essentially all flat color this isn't really necessary but it's definitely good practice and gives me more flexibility later down the line so I did it anyway.

This is my first time doing UV mapping in any program, which is probably the least popular element of 3D as it's a tedious but important step with no creative element, needless to say I do it wrong the first time around, this was my first attempt at UV mapping a simple eyeball:



I had tried to unwrap the whole thing in one click, it didn't work, which is what those red bits indicate. The red shows areas where mesh overlaps. Because the entire thing was red I didn't realize I had done anything wrong so I did the same for the other eye and eyebrows and moved on to the body!

Sensibly I split this into a few parts, this is the first:



This is the 2nd:



Note that the nostrils are not highlighted in this group, I mapped them separately with the intention of texturing them black, instead of the green I would use for the rest of the model, they're the elliptical objects in the left of the UV editor window.



Here is where bad topology really comes into play. Larry's mouth was impossible to map in one or even two goes, I had to do it a few polygons at a time. If this was a high detail area then this would be no good as the texture wouldn't apply evenly and will appear tiled and stitched. One way around this without going back and fixing the topology is to 'stitch' the UVs together one UV at a time. This is tedious, difficult and, for this, unnecessary so I didn't do it. It'sa lot easier in the long run to just get the topology right to begin with, especially if you're animating.

Once the whole net is on the UV grid I had to arrange the pieces to fit in the top right quadrant, the more they tessellate then the more optimized the map and thus the scene will be. I do this and then export the map to a EPS file that I can open in photoshop.


This is the point when I realize what the red areas mean and realize I'd better fix the other maps. I do the eyebrows first, which I have to do it two parts. The first:

[IMG]http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4485/52849547.jpg[IMG]

I was occasionally referencing the 3D artist tutorial that inspired the look I was going for and that pointed me to a feature in the UV editor I hadn't used yet; show distortion. This shows areas where the texture will either be squashed (red) or stretched (blue). The dream scenario would be to have all the UVs as one piece (so the texture has no seams) with no distortion at all. This is usually not realistic, distortion can be avoided but usually seams are put where they'll be noticed least and care is taken whilst making the texture to try to make them match up.

As you can see my map has a lot of distortion but it doesn't matter. For the next eyebrow I try to fix the distortion and I see some improvement but it's not perfect. As I said though, for this it doesn't matter so I move on.



Now I open the body EPS file in photoshop and fill it with the shade of green I want. The mental image I've had of Larry's color has always been a little more saturated and a little less blue than the shade of color I ended up choosing. It seems that after working on this for 5 straight hours last night I had a crisis of confidence and thought that my original intended shade looked too brash. When I got back into modo and realized I decided that rather than go back and fix it I would just adjust it during post processing. This is bad practice, bad me. Very bad. But it was late and I wanted to get done, I'll explain why it's not totallllly horrendous later.

I also originally forgot to fill in the nostrils with black, making the UV stage utterly pointless, except from a learning POV. I went back and did this messily (it doesn't matter) but I didn't bother applying it! In hindsight this is actually a decision I support but I'll get on to why later.




Next it was time to apply that texture. In the next shot you can see the materials view, I'd already made materials for the eyes and eyebrows. I just applied materials in modo and didn't bother with textures as they simply weren't necessary, making UV mapping them utterly pointless!




I apply the texture and this is what I get:


Next I go onto the 'setup' tab and start setting up lighting and the camera. I don't spend a lot of time on this stage because it's not an area where I have as much new to learn as the others and by this point I have already decided that when I'm done I'm going to try to create the image from scratch again and do it much better, so I can focus on lighting then. For now I move on.




Next is the render tab. I set it so the image is 3500x3000 pixels with a DPI of 300. This is big enough to not look jaggy or pixelated without taking an age to render.




I briefly experimented with some of the HDR (high dynamic range) presets. These are panoramic maps which are used to get accurate reflections. Since I'm going for a cartoony flat style none of these are suitable and I stick with my lighting set up. I set it up to render 4 different passes. Final color output, Alpha output, Ambient Occlusion output and depth output. I'll explain what these are and what they're used for when I get into photoshop.




And so I render it:



The thumbnails at the bottom show all renders that I did. All but the last were quick tests to see how my lighting was looking when I was in the 'setup' tab, which doesn't have the luxury of an automatically updating render preview.

Next I opened up all the passes in photoshop:



Top left is the final color pass which, essentially, is the final image sans post processing.

Top right is the alpha output, which makes it really easy to select Larry in photoshop, I can do it in one click with the magic wand. This helps me when I come to fill in his mouth.

Bottom left is the ambient occlusion pass. Ambient occlusion attempts to approximate the way light radiates in real life, especially off what are normally considered non-reflective surfaces. It will help me get a little more depth to the lighting.
bottom right is the depth pass. This shades the mesh bashed on how far away it is from the camera. This is great for adding things like depth of field in post as it can be used as a mask.

First off I get all the passes together in one document and then use the alpha pass to select the background around Larry and delete it.





Next I made a new layer and use a radial fill with two shades of orange to make a background that will complement Larry's skin tone.




I made another layer and then used filters>render>fibres to make a pattern. I tried to blend this with the orange to give the background a texture but I didn't like the look so I deleted it.



Next I made the color output a little more green and upped the saturation. Then I turned on the ambient occlusion layer, set layer mode to 'multiply' and brought the opacity down to 81% (these settings are somewhat arbitrary, for ambient occlusion passes multiply usually works best but it's a case of trial and error). This gave me some better shadows in the nostrils (which I prefer to just texturing them black) and around the eyes, which previously seemed to be emitting a weird glow. I copy/pasted the original color output and put it a layer above the original. I set layer mode to 'luminosity' which helped to take the edge of the highlights, which became a bit blown out when I fiddled with the color of the original.


I then turned my attention back to the background and this time decided to use a real texture:



Here it is stretched to fit, layer mode set to 'linear light' and opacity brought way down.




Next I decided to use the depth pass to adjust the color balance for no reason other than for practice. I made a new color balance adjustment layer, bringing reds way up and set the depth pass to be a mask for that layer. This made things further away from the camera more red than things close.

This is with the adjustment applied:



This is without:



I didn't really like it applied fully, but I liked the extra definition it brought to the shadows so I lowered its opacity to 60%:




Next, using the alpha pass to select the area I filled in Larry's mouth. I then zoomed in to make some small adjustments and fix a weird area of shadow caused by the ambient occlusion pass:




I then added another texture to the background and fixed some over exposure in the specular highlights of his left eye.




I still felt the background was a little lacking so I added a final texture:



And with that I was done. Here's the final image (not full size, full size is too big to upload to iamgeshack):




I'm not totally happy with the final result. His expression is off and he doesn't look as smooth or nice as he should. This was mostly down to technical issues, it was my first time using modo afterall and it was my first time doing UV mapping, texturing and post processing a 3D image like this at all so I'm not surprised. I feel like I learned a lot yesterday though so I'm pretty happy with how my day went. Now that I feel like I've got to grips with modo I am going to brush up on how to maintain good topology and then have another crack at it. My aims will be:
1) maintain good topology
2) fix his expression
3) light him better, less blown out highlights
4) UV map with no distortion
5) add some cool 3D text saying 'Larry' and make it a poster.
6) do it quicker [optional]

Crucially I want to do this properly, the right way so that I can have confidence going into the final scene, which is a lot more complex. I won't be starting work on that until I've got my new PC up and running which [I]should[I] be Wednesday, but doing this again should keep me occupied until then anyway.

I'll probably start Larry's headshot again tonight. If you've got any questions, comments or criticism then go ahead. Thanks for reading! Hehe, I'm like 40% sure that trying to post all of this will break the thread but here I go.
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