yeah that's why bet/folding is so super strong. people play their hand so straight forward, it's literally a case of them putting in 1 post bet for an ok hand (1 pair/2 pair), 2 post bets for a good hand (trips/straight), and 3 or more for a great hand (flush+)

Bear with me because i'm sleep deprived but i think your math is misapplied there.

Assuming he checks 100% of his range, 30% of the time he will have improved and will call (or raise). For your bet to be break-even you need to be ahead 50% of the time it's called or raised (if he never c/r bluffs).

So of the remaining 70% of his c/call range, you need to be ahead 50 of the 70% (i.e. 72% of the time he has one pair and calls).

If he's calling 50% of the time with one pair; but 72% of the time he calls with one pair, you're ahead; then he'd have to be starting with a very very wide range, like 66+ or something.

Anyway, if you agree that you're behind his median hand here, then betting has to be -EV, right?



Then you should open 99-TT (or whatever is just below your opening range here) and bluff it ui, right?

Seems like that's a far better way to balance than turning big pairs into snows. Big pairs want to make big two pairs and get paid off by little two pairs.

Back to my point: Unless he's calling wider 3 : pat than 3 : 3, snowing is wasting EV because of the times he outdraws you.

Incidentally, i don't think most players (including me) are nearly good enough at turning one pair hands into bluffs.

Poker Stars $2/$4 Limit 5 Card Draw - 5 players - View hand 1280020
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Pre Draw: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with A A 6 4 2
UTG folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls

First Draw: (4.5 SB) (2 players)
BB draws 3, Hero draws 1
Hand: A A 6 4 2
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

Final Pot: 4.25 BB
Hero shows A A 6 4 2 (a pair of Aces)
BB mucks J 9 9 8 2
Hero wins 4.25 BB

I should probly have said already that this isn't the standard thing!

Think of these plays as one for the playbook rather than bread and butter

OK here's a situation I'm not sure about. This is for really small stakes, .1/.2 and .25/.50. Say I'm in late position with a big pair, like Aces or Kings, a person limps before me, I raise, and and the limper (and maybe the big blind) call. They both draw three. Should I draw two or three? Most players at these limits draw two to trips, not one (but I almost always draw one to trips). By drawing two I'm cutting down on the chance someone bluffs into me as people like to bluff at these levels. By drawing three I've given myself the best chance to improve if one of them makes two pair. Right now my strat has been OOP draw three, in position draw two to stop bluffs. Am I making a mistake?

Probably!!

Why would you want to stop people bluffing you? That's free money!

When you don't know any of the players it's OK to play tight and get bluffed to start with. Eventually you will see all the showdowns and figure out who is bluffing and who is only playing the goods. Think of that money you lose getting bluffed at the start of sessions as tuition fees

It's less expensive to get bluffed every once in a while than paying off every single post bet because most of the time people aren't bluffing. Find solace in that rather than ending your sessions devoid of curiosity but also devoid of a bankroll for the next session! Assuming you are in position, simply fold your hand uinimproved post until you have good information which says they are habitual bluffers. Besides - in a 3 way pot they are unlikely to be bluffing.

IMO draw 3 in this situation. Vs 2 players there is no point trying to represent a bluff because someone already limped - it's obvious you aren't bluffing (you would rep a bluff by drawing 1 and betting post, not 2). Drawing 2 is very unbalanced and should rarely be done.

The only issue with drawing 3 in this situation is that it looks like AA. That's not really a problem at micros IMO but at 2/4 where I play I think people can put you on a hand easier so I like to stop them from figuring out whether I have a pair, a draw or 2pair+ by occasionally drawing 1 when it would normally be a draw 3 situation especially when I raised from the SB or BTN vs their BB (they will be prone to curiosity far more as part of their hopes to defend the big blind).

You can also stop your hand being face up by raising draws and repping 2 pair or trips in this same situation, or you can raise with a wider range of pairs than AA. If you strongly think someone limped on a draw for example, it isn't terrible to raise a pair of tens for example in position vs someone who limped on a draw. You will be a favourite if they are on a draw and will earn 1 more SB when they call the raise. If they draw 3, try and come up with some elaborate ways to bluff them more often than drawing 3 to the tens - most likely they are on a pair of jacks or queens. Usually a bet post will take it if you draw 3 but if you think they will also have KK or AA, draw 1 and bet.

A quick question about variance: In my first 2500 hands of 1/2 l5cd I won about 100BB but in my last 400 I've lost about 40BB which, considering its supposed to be a low variance game with like 20BB swings, seems quite large. Is this normal and should I just soldier through it or does it indicate leaks in my game?

In 3-3 spots I always draw 3 unless I have compelling reasons to think villain has AA also(some only have this pair in their calling range). Very few players bluff in 3-3 spots so you shouldnt really worry too much about that. Making trip aces when someone else has trip kings is also a nice upside

40bb is not a lot. Im unsure where you get the 20bb swing number from. That has to be from a 100 times larger sample.

hey guys, am looking for some guidance here - i have played a lot of FL 5CD but little PL or NL.

mostly, in the hand i thought that for the $2 predraw call that pot odds of 4.75 to 1 meant As were too good to lay down to see the draw. was that a fair assessment?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 Pot Limit 5 Card Draw - 6 players - View hand 1282337
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $104.40
Hero (UTG): $62.75
MP: $12.70
CO: $34.00
BTN: $86.45
SB: $79.45

Pre Draw: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with A A T 4 2
Hero raises to $3, MP folds, CO raises to $5, BTN folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls $2

First Draw: ($11.50) (2 players)
Hero draws 3, CO draws 1
Hand: A A Q Q 2
Hero checks, CO bets $3, Hero calls $3

Plus implied odds. The call is very exploitable by bluffers and you are crushed vs a value 1cd range, but not as much as if you had 2 baby pair.

i like play omaha.... but don`t have a porcent...

that`s right..

Standard call all over here. nh

This thread is such a goldmine of good advice, I read through it for the 2nd time last night and decided I want to work on my FL5CD game.

I have passed my first 10k hands with a moderate win-rate, can some of you regulars take a quick look at my stats and suggest if any are way out of line. I have plenty of leaks and want to improve my win-rate to 2BB/100 or more before moving up.



When I look at them myself I guess my fold to cont bet % should be lower? I also think 3bet % and fold to 3bet% should be much higher...

i think you want to make your PDR be far closer to your VP$IP and also bring down your VP$IP. at 10c/20c you could likely double your winrate by doing so.

what we can ascertain from those 2 stats is that you are calling raises too often and if your hand is only good enough for a call then that means you either don't like your hand when you call the raise or you don't get 3bets in with the best hand often enough. if you suspect you do not have the best hand predraw you are better off just folding because your instincts will more often than not be correct.

Exactly what I needed, that makes a lot of sense.

+1

from those stats you look slightly passive for your range. Tighten your range (maybe fewer draws) with more betting.

Well done tho on a winning start.

As stated try to raise more.

Obviously i cant comment on the way you play but alot of ppl on the lower limit stakes seem to check call with a low 2p, this isnt gonna make you alot of money unless uve got a solid read on someone. (already seen some blufs / playing a spewtard)

Best thing is to play ABC poker there. Raise when you got something and fold when you got crap. Also try to involve maths in your play click for odds

This strat got me to win around $70 in 8k hands on those stakes.




edit: for those playing 100pl/nl on stars: Hows the level of play there compared to 50pl/nl?

Bumping for interest + newbie3d's great benefit.

I have been running into a bit of trouble lately whilst I move up limits with villains playing HU.

With certain villains I have a pretty good idea of their opnening/RR range but were im finding it difficult is with my calling frequency Post Draw,in particular 3:3. As in the hand below.

I was wondering what the GTCF might be in these situations(if anyone has an idea on it).or what should our strategy be in these scenarios, as I find myself just going with my gut in hands similar to this one, as I fear I may be folding too often!

Cheers,BTW great thread-KIG.
Aplogies as HC was not working.


PokerStars Game 5 Card Draw Limit ($5/$10 USD)
6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 3: HERO ($125.50 in chips)
Seat 4: player4 ($269 in chips)
HERO: posts small blind $2
player4: posts big blind $5
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to grattans [4c 3d Qc 5s 4s]
HERO: raises $5 to $10
player4: raises $5 to $15
HERO: calls $5
player4: discards 3 cards
HERO: discards 3 cards [3d Qc 5s]
Dealt to HERO [4c 4s] [5c Qh Ts]
player4: bets $10
HERO: calls $10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
player4: shows [2c Ks 6s 2s 5d] (a pair of Deuces)
HERO: shows [4c 5c Qh Ts 4s] (a pair of Fours)
HERO collected $49 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $50 | Rake $1
Seat 3: HERO (button) (small blind) showed [4c 5c Qh Ts 4s] and won ($49) with a pair of Fours
Seat 4: player4 (big blind) showed [2c Ks 6s 2s 5d] and lost with a pair of Deuces

Bet and call pre is pretty standard. Call post is very non-standard and frankly I dont like it. If you see many big cards I think you can sometimes make a herocall. Its a superb play by villain really. I really like his play.

Thanks for your reply Bjornar.....

Yeh, +1 on villains approach-he done this in identical spots a few times of which I called some,but with stronger holdings than above and more often than not I was on the backfoot and a few times unsure how to react.
I posted the hand because I wasnt sure in game what strategy to adjust to!
As I expected the rise in levels brings better players+ more aggro which makes the games alot tougher.

As 44 is a very weak call, what are your thoughts on playing against an opponent like this. If we say 77+ are we folding too often?

FWIW,i made the herocall wit 44 just to make a stand as to not be exploited by folding too much but then I had the added danger of possibly calling too much.

I think its fine to sometimes make these kind of calls for possible gameflow and you show villain that you are capable of making calls like this so dont BS ME! When I approach villains like this I usually go for a slightly tighter opening range pre and make slightly thiner valuebets/raises post draw. Maybe folding some of my weakest pairs and 4-bet QQ+ on the button for instance. Or bet-calling AA and then raising it post if 3-3. That sort of thing.