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Old 07-22-2009, 09:49 AM   #46
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

I had PokerHands, but now it says the version expired when I start. Isnt this program freeware? I just dont know anymore what to do to get it working, clean installation doesnt work..
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:21 AM   #47
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

Newest version: http://www.cartridgesoftware.com/fil...hands_b100.exe
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:47 PM   #48
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

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Originally Posted by LUCIUS VARENUS View Post
I'd read there's low variance so having some fun with it can't be that harmful if you have some poker sense.
I disagree with the part about variance. You don't really lose as much from it, but the variance (from my point of view so far) can be a real bitch. There's quite alot of time where nobody is ever giving you action, and when they do they draw and hit two outers. I usually get the swings in days more than in sessions.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:43 PM   #49
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

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tnx man,

so which stats should I add? I have added only win procentage - win %

It would be usefull if any program had live tracking for how much cards did they draw - casue im always looking in the text editor when I multitable.

here are my first 3k hands @ microstakes:



how would a normal VPIP and AF look in this game? What should be the normal aggresion factor? Any ideas?

Last edited by antisolar; 07-22-2009 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:36 PM   #50
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

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How do I get this going? PostgreSQL what?
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:39 PM   #51
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

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I think you have an auto bet and the reason for that is your ace kicker. He is obv drawing to a pair with an ace and you have one of them.
that doesnt make a heap of sense - if we assume the BB has a low pair with an ace kicker to draw 2 then when he doesnt improve he probably isnt calling so the fact its less likely for him to improve isnt a good reason to bet

i think its dumb to sit pat - draw 1 with the plan of value betting unimproved on the basis that the BB will suspect you are raising your draw on the button trying to steal

i think until you get seriously good at draw you should never compromise your drawing odds except drawing 1 to trips which is hardly a compromise at all

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Old 07-22-2009, 10:36 PM   #52
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

And here are three situations I shouldn't run into but do at passive tables...

1) I'm in the SB and have AQxxx. It's limped twice to me. BB is not aggro. Do I complete and draw 3 to the AQ, complete and draw 4 to the A, or just muck it? What about AJxxx? KQxxx?

2) I'm in the BB with total trash and it's limped to me. I've got something awful like Qxxxx. Do I even bother keeping the Q and drawing 4, or just draw 5.

3) I'm in the BB with a crap draw like 3467X. It's limped to me, and 4 or 5 way. Do I toss the lot and draw 5, or go ahead draw 1 to the inside straight?

In the above 3 situations, assume table dynamics are such that raising and pat-bluffing are not +EV options.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:23 AM   #53
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

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And here are three situations I shouldn't run into but do at passive tables...

1) I'm in the SB and have AQxxx. It's limped twice to me. BB is not aggro. Do I complete and draw 3 to the AQ, complete and draw 4 to the A, or just muck it? What about AJxxx? KQxxx?

2) I'm in the BB with total trash and it's limped to me. I've got something awful like Qxxxx. Do I even bother keeping the Q and drawing 4, or just draw 5.

3) I'm in the BB with a crap draw like 3467X. It's limped to me, and 4 or 5 way. Do I toss the lot and draw 5, or go ahead draw 1 to the inside straight?

In the above 3 situations, assume table dynamics are such that raising and pat-bluffing are not +EV options.
1) fold; only AK suited if at all - the question you need to ask yourself is how often will making KK win and how the limpers play postdraw.

2) depends who limped and how many limped; if you are heads up with the SB and your other card is as good as an eight, draw three to give yourself the option of bluffing if the SB draws three; if multiway and one of the limpers could have limped in with QQ or KK, draw five! If the button or cutoff has limped and would normally raise with QQ ( clear open raise from those spots ), draw four; on the other hand, if heads up with a limper that will often have QQ or KK, simply draw five.

3) drawing five is normal; even hitting a gutshot is no guarantee of winning the pot
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Old 07-23-2009, 04:44 AM   #54
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

hi, i am pretty new to 5cd and i have a few questions? i have played a little on stars 0,5/1 nl and this is what happened. i had recently sat down and had no reads on anyone. i was inn 50bb. i was utg and dealt j high straight. and raised 3bb. action folded around to the button who raises to 9. i called and pat. he draws 2 cards. i check to him to make him hang himself, but he bets all inn...what should i do here??? its an all inn call for me because he got me covered. i make up my mind and i cant fold and call and loose to a boat. wtf.... what went wrong???? unlucky and variance?
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:36 AM   #55
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

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hi, i am pretty new to 5cd and i have a few questions? i have played a little on stars 0,5/1 nl and this is what happened. i had recently sat down and had no reads on anyone. i was inn 50bb. i was utg and dealt j high straight. and raised 3bb. action folded around to the button who raises to 9. i called and pat. he draws 2 cards. i check to him to make him hang himself, but he bets all inn...what should i do here??? its an all inn call for me because he got me covered. i make up my mind and i cant fold and call and loose to a boat. wtf.... what went wrong???? unlucky and variance?
Clear 4-bet predraw since his reraising range should include all trips. I don't know why you didn't value bet postdraw and then fold to a raise. Good bet by opponent ( often the maximum EV versus a player that pays off anywhere close to game theory ) and in practice players often underbet postdraw.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:50 AM   #56
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

anyone knows where i could find 8 handed online draw?

a little addon for the button play:

My minimum is TT or 99 with two high cards or + an ace. I never play hands like 99234 or 99J54. It`s because the mroe high cards do you have, the less is possible that the blinds have more high cards. It`s simple. I open sometimes with 88 to but I dont have good experiences with this hand.

and the small blind:

I usually complete with AQ+xxx and pair of 5-6, anything worse i fold, anything better I raise. It`s player dependant.

but in the big blind im little woried,

I normally raise KK+ when there are 2 or 3 limpers and af course any better hand. It depends on the players but I would like to ask if I can lower my range or tighten? And the reraise range? These two pair limpers kill me. TWO pairs is - I really think so the trickiest hand in 5cd.

I just wanted to ask,

if there are lets say 2 limpers - which pairs do you guys limp? QQ+ ?
cause anytime there are two or more limpers if I raise with KK+ there i someone that has weak two pair and I`m done if I don`t improve.

actually till now is everything going super and the first 5k hands I have learned a lot. I had little swings, lost more pat hands in a row and I am interested if someone can tell me what was the worst experience in 5cd for him, cause I think everybody should be prepared for swings :P

Last edited by antisolar; 07-23-2009 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:59 PM   #57
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCIUS VARENUS View Post

I HAVE A QUESTION OR TWO

Say you raise on the button with aces, a guy 3 bets in the big blind and draws 3 then bets, DO YOU CALL UNIMPROVED?! I had that hand today. Guy obv had aces with king kicker and value bet! Damn that ten kicker.
u need to catch at least a paint kicker to call here imo.

Say you raise on the button with aces and big blind calls. He draws 3 as do you. Do you bet unimproved a lot?
95% in LP if he checks. in EP, u want a Q or K kicker, as described above

Is it ever advantageous to stand pat with a pair, JJ-AA, when you were the raiser and were only called in one spot?
ONLY in LP, and you want to see villain draw 2 or 3. In rare cases of a KNOWN total flake villain, you could try this in EP... especially if he limped from LP and you raised from the blinds.

OK here is a hand. I was unsure about the value bet.

PokerStars Game #30736512312: 5 Card Draw Limit ($1/$2) - 2009/07/22 6:59:23 WET [2009/07/22 1:59:23 ET]
Table 'Mnesthus II' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: valkorn ($15.75 in chips)
Seat 3: elfrum ($20.25 in chips)
Seat 4: fun2draw1 ($28 in chips)
Seat 5: 78OFFTILT ($92 in chips)
valkorn: posts small blind $0.50
elfrum: posts big blind $1
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to 78OFFTILT [A 6 7 7 6]
fun2draw1: folds
78OFFTILT: raises $1 to $2
valkorn: folds
elfrum: calls $1
elfrum: discards 2 cards
78OFFTILT: stands pat on [A 6 7 7 6]
elfrum: checks
78OFFTILT: bets $2
elfrum: calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
78OFFTILT: shows [A 6 7 7 6] (two pair, Sevens and Sixes)
Spoiler:

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.50 | Rake $0.25
Seat 1: valkorn (small blind) folded before the Draw
Spoiler:

Seat 4: fun2draw1 folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Spoiler:


Was that a good play? Obv mixing it up patting with two pair.
Make sure it's a small amount in the mix, like 20-30%. Once they tee off on you after they catch, that option's pretty much removed from that table.
Also, note villain's WEAK call in BB- he was obv. drawing to A77 or A66. ick.
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:09 PM   #58
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

Wow, not adding much but thanks to all the posters in here. I was able to smash a freeroll last night playing 5cd for the first time. I entered only because my roommate did. I then proceeded to read this forum and search in the middle of hands. Wow, really good information on here. Thanks guys!
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:44 PM   #59
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

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Originally Posted by LUCIUS VARENUS View Post
IMO the best way to adjust is to tighten up your raising range after they have limped, and hardly ever call them when they raise.
Depends on if they are tight limpers or loose limpers. If they limp in once an orbit, then I actually raise them lighter than I'd normally open. Limping in with that kind of frequency means they're limping in with shorts and 1-card straight and flush draws a lot. They're making a mistake and I want to punish them for it when I can.

If they're tight limpers, like their limp range is my raise range, I'll tighten up my range about the same way that I'd do so if there was a raise ahead. I mean if they are limping with AA+, 2pr or better only, you'll figure that out before you hit 50 hands with them I think.
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:07 PM   #60
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Re: Some Chat About 5 Card Draw Strat - How About DAT?

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Originally Posted by stripsqueez View Post
that doesnt make a heap of sense - if we assume the BB has a low pair with an ace kicker to draw 2 then when he doesnt improve he probably isnt calling so the fact its less likely for him to improve isnt a good reason to bet

i think its dumb to sit pat - draw 1 with the plan of value betting unimproved on the basis that the BB will suspect you are raising your draw on the button trying to steal

i think until you get seriously good at draw you should never compromise your drawing odds except drawing 1 to trips which is hardly a compromise at all

stripsqueez - chickenhawk
I disagree. People will call you with whatever thinking you are drawing. Be surprised at what they call you with. I like your other two points in that post btw.
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