So, Ive done some poking around and I cant find anything on this game, as far as I know it was invented and played only in NYC and surrounding suburbs. Based on the name, I can only assume it was invented in the back room of some Italian bar or cafe by someone who had a bit too much Grappa. I think its spelled with one L, but it could be two.

Essentially its Omaha 8 or better, played with 5 cards - but the twist is that you can play your 5 cards as a pat hand. You can play 2 OR 5 of your hole cards for either the hi or low half of the pot. The game can be played as limit, or for the truly fearless, pot limit or no limit.

First, let me say that pat hands are rare so in practice the game plays like 5 card Omaha 8, but dont fall asleep at the wheel and forget what you are playing! Its NOT 5 card Omaha 8!

In practice, the most common pat hand to be dealt is a pat low, and sometimes you will be dealt a pat hi hand which is so weak that its barely worth playing - say a ten high flush. But sometimes, once in a blue moon, you will be dealt monsters like kings full or a 6 low, or an Ace King high flush with A2 (A24JKs e.g.) - and these are extremely powerful holdings.

Anyway, I just wanted to leave a note here on 2+2 about this game, and after having played it I can say that its one of the most fun poker games I have ever played. For a good hi-lo player, its a thing of beauty. Although bots might be able to beat humans at limit holdem, I think the number of possibilities in the game tree of NL Scungili will keep us safe from our computer overlords for quite some time.

interesting and I might do it in my home game for a round or two. Question; when would you declare your hand as pat? I'm assuming before the flop.

There need not be a declare it could be cards speak as in regular Omaha Hilo games.

You can scoop yes? A2345!

It's 2 or 5, right? Not 2, 3, 4, or 5. I think it's a good game.

We played a bit of this game at BARGE a few years ago-it was called "2 or 5 Omaha". You use either two cards (as usual) or all five from your hand. I saw someone scoop a huge pot when they got dealt a six-high straight and someone with AKK2x with top set and what would usually be the nut low learned that A2 isn't always the nut low.

We played it as cards speak-no declare.

We played this in a couple of my home games...first limit, then PL or NL...I refuse to play the NL/PL version...it is the poker equivelent of Lotto, as you have NO CLUE where you stand.

In a 300 buyin game, we had someone scoop a massive 6 way pot with over 5000 about ten years ago...he was dealt a wheel, other players had sets/nut flush draws/7 lows on board.

It's fun in a low limit home game, or if your suicidal, a high limit game!

Enjoy

Welcome back Tom,

You seemed to disappear off the radar. I thought you were missing in action.

Al Mirpuri.

deal me out.

how about NL holdem.. WITH A LOW .. you have to use both whole cards for a low.. imagine the action!!! am I a genius?? this would save live poker if it caught on

I've played split pot hold em games before.

would be sick to make a low on the river.. and you can go all in.. its hard for a good high hand to call

Sure, thats how any No Limit hi-lo game works.

What makes Scungili so different is, you can have A2xxx for the lock low on the board, and still get scooped by a rolled up wheelbarrow.

Its definitely not for everyone. I heard one of the bigger players at a game not far out in NJ just quit the game because he flopped the joint on a 89T rainbow board during the Scungili round, the turn and river were tiny little bricks and he lost to a rolled up K high straight.

There currently is almost no bluffing in the game, but I think thats because very few great poker players have ever played it and for most good players its easy enough to beat just playing ABC.

You mean quartered, right? I don't get it.

My holding: A2345
Opponent holding: A25KJ

Board: 368KK

I play all 5 of my hole cards as a pat hand for both my high and low hands: a wheel

My opponent plays AK for his high (AKKK8), three of a kind, and A2 for his low (A2368), which is the nut 8 low - the lock low on the board.

I make a pot sized bet on the river, and he raises me, thinking hes getting 1/2 the pot at worse, and often 3/4 or better. I go all in and he confidently calls, but I win the whole pot. The notion that he could get scooped for his whole stack in this spot never even occurred to him.

In Scungili, the best possible hand on the river is always A2345 for the low and TJQKA suited (Royal Flush) for the high, no matter what is on the board.

But the gist or essence of the game is that its very rare to play a pat hand for either part of the pot, let alone be dealt a pat wheel or aces full, which are like a unicorns. The extreme rarity of strong pat hands is what makes the game great, because 19/20 hands play out just like regular 5 card omaha high low, so there is a tendency for players to fall asleep at the wheel and forget that a nut hand using the board is never the nuts in Scungili.

P.S. final notes: the game can only be played 8 handed at most, and to answer a previous question, NO, there is no declare.

Have played this game under the names "Classic Bob" and "Five Two". No idea where the name "Classic Bob" came from. Played it pot limit. Big pots.

which is why it's a stupid game.

Tried to get them to spread this for myself and a few friends at the Rio here tonight. No dice. "We dont have a ruleset. We would have to submit a petition to the gaming commision." How about a private game? Not allowed either.

With the explosive popularity of BigO, I thought we would have a shot at getting to play this variant. Maybe if a few of you guys ask, they will listen. I know its a longshot, but it never hurts to try and I think this game could one day become very popular.

Pretty sure they have had it GC approved at the Venetian and Binion's, and have the ruleset (which I assuming is a set of rules!?). You could phone either room and see if they'll spread it. Depending on the time of day and the number of available dealers/tables they might be willing to do it.

At one time five-or-two was fairly popular in L.A. private games, and would occasionally show up in Vegas.

Actually what you claim as best hands is wrong. If the board, e.g., is AAAAx, then the best lo is 23456 and the best high is the straight flush to the king.

Same applies for many other quad boards ...