This is a tournament. The final 3 are me, and the husband wife who are in the same living room. Back story, guy has been running bar games for years. Recently started up online using PS home games as how we play. Uses pay pal, cash up front, or other forms of payment and takes rake. Was there obvious collusion here?

PokerStars Home Game Hand #153760649240: {ACESUP16} Tournament #1574035129, 1+0 5 Card Draw Limit - Level XXI (6000/12000) - 2016/05/23 22:46:31 CT [2016/05/23 23:46:31 ET]
Table '1574035129 2' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Husband(81290 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero (22660 in chips)
Seat 6: Wife (56050 in chips)
Husband: posts the ante 1500
Hero: posts the ante 1500
Wife: posts the ante 1500
Hero: posts small blind 3000
Wife: posts big blind 6000
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Hero[3d 3s 9s Kc Kd]
Husband: raises 6000 to 12000
Hero: raises 6000 to 18000
Wife: calls 12000
Husband: raises 6000 to 24000
Betting is capped
Hero: calls 3160 and is all-in
Wife: calls 6000
Hero: discards 1 card [9s]
Dealt to Hero[3d 3s Kc Kd] [5d]
Wife: discards 3 cards
Husband: discards 2 cards
Wife: bets 12000
Husband: folds
Uncalled bet (12000) returned to Wife
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Wife: shows [6h Ac Ah 3c As] (three of a kind, Aces)
WIfe collected 5680 from side pot
Hero: shows [3d 3s 5d Kc Kd] (two pair, Kings and Threes)
Wife collected 67980 from main pot
Hero finished the tournament in 3rd place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 73660 Main pot 67980. Side pot 5680. | Rake 0
Seat 1: Husband (button) folded after the Draw
Seat 3: Hero (small blind) showed [3d 3s 5d Kc Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Threes
Seat 6: Wife (big blind) showed [6h Ac Ah 3c As] and won (73660) with three of a kind, Aces

He said he had trip Q's to start. I know that in this situation, either are good enough to play this hand post draw that well given the dynamics of the situation. Top 2 receive money.

the type of people that are gonna run a PS play money operation with rake are the type of people that will collude, imo.

No.

You were all-in before the draw.

The wife bet and the husband folded after the draw. If they were colluding, there would be no reason for the wife to bet after the flop, and there would be no reason for the husband to fold.

They might have colluded, but you have not presented any evidence to indicate they did collude.

Buzz

the husband could fold because he knew he was beat?

Except he may want to hide the fact that he was raising with a cathop in order to squeeze OP.

The wife drew three cards, evidently to a pair of aces. (She ended up with trip aces after a three card draw).

The husband is the one who raised before the draw. The husband later volunteered he drew two cards to trip queens and missed. Yeah, he may have been lying.

Do you think the husband jacked up the betting with her drawing three cards to a pair of aces and him drawing two cards with three cards to a straight or flush... or to a pair plus an ace?

Sure, I suppose it's possible.

But it's more logical that the husband actually had trips and read his wife for better that his trips when she came out betting into his two card draw after the draw.

There's certainly no proof of cheating.

Any money going into the pot after the draw cannot affect mug, the opening poster, because it's money in the side pot that goes to either the husband or wife.

Buzz

This is correct.

You cannot prove collusion here. Even if colluding, raising a cat-hop does not make sense in this instance, but raising 3 queens does.

He read his wife, or she told him to fold. It wouldn't matter at that point (post-draw), since they likely knew that they had won all the chips already.


This type of hand is more typical in 5 card draw. It is certainly possible that it went down with no collusion, but you don't know for sure. I have folded trips in the past when I have been very sure of my opponent's playing style, which a husband should be in regards to his wife.

If you play mostly hold 'em, then consider that this type of hand comes about more often in 5 card draw.


The moral of this story is:

Never play internet poker for money with people in the same room together.

Even though people may initially have good intentions, the collusion bait would be difficult not to take.

yeah it really doesn't make sense for the husband to cap a weak hand in this situation pre draw even if they are colluding.

If they were colluding it makes more sense for the wife to fold pre draw.

Why? They have two monster starting hands and are splitting the win regardless, their only desire should be to get the third player all in. Which is what they did.

And lol at folding trip queens there, why would he lie about his hand like that? I can think of one reason.

So they don't have to lay 2:1. The three aces already have hero crushed and it's 7:1 against the three queens improving. Because of hero's raise there is no need to whipsaw him.

Why would they want to lay 2:1 when they already have a hand that's a massive favorite?

If they are colluding, they may have decided that their pre-draw hands were collectively a favourite over your likely holdings and/or were hoping to fold you out. After the draw, whoever had the best hand could bet to create an illusion of competition between them and to protect their play. If this is what they are doing, it's unlikely to be the first time, and, if they collude as part of their usual strategy, they will likely often try to get hu vs each other and then take turns taking it down before showdown when they are at the same table.

You could drop by and ask to see the hand history, but it would likely make you look a little rude. If you ask to see the hh and they deny your request or act offended and refuse, don't play with them any more. Don't ask for it by email, because it's too easy to doctor a hh.

Also, as TomH pointed out, charging rake (unless its tiny compared to the stakes) seems a little sketchy and greedy since they don't seem to be providing much in terms of service. You need to ask yourself if they are the type of people who would feel justified in cheating the players in a game they want to get paid to run.

10% is standard rake. He is in no way getting rich off these games but is freerolling and one of the better players. He does it because he is the escrow to the money flow.

The games are easy, and they aren't smart enough to collude consistently without getting caught, so I don't think it happens regularly. I 100% believe he never folds trip Q's in that spot to anyone else, and she is fairly new to poker so she isn't smart enough to pull anything off elaborate. This was the first real 5 card draw game put into his scheduled "events." (was usually a side game on occasion)

This whole online home game is only been running a couple months. To which I have been crushing, and am not going to bring it up. I will just keep my eyes peeled, I had believed there was another husband wife colluding few weeks back, others pointed it out. I would have left it because they both are complete fish. This instance comes from the guy who is taking rake. 3rd place gets zero money while top 2 take the pot. I don't think they set out to collude, I think it was probably spur of the moment. She probably was a tell box at their apartment and was like, "wheeeee, I drew the third A."

Don't play for money against people you know (a) are playing in the same room together and (b) have mutual financial interests, unless you have a lot of trust for them. (And even then, meh.)

Also, taking 10% rake merely to schedule online tournaments and be the escrow man is atrocious.

This hand isn't necessarily indicative of cheating, but if you feel like they're less than trustworthy, there's your answer. It doesn't matter if they're really colluding because it's not like you have any recourse if they are. If you're feeling suspicious, vote with your feet.

What you're saying about how its atypical for him to fold 3 queens unless she told him she caught the third ace is definitely true, but its not collusion whatsoever. It would be collusion if you had folded preflop! Then he is gaining an unfair advantage that keeps him from losing a lot of chips on the river, but with you all in there is no advantage to him folding here. I don't think you really understand the word "collusion" you are just saying that its crazy for him to fold there and yeah I would tend to agree with that, but it didn't hurt you at all.

All that said when you are playing against people that are in the same room as each other there is always the potential for collusion, so if you want to play in the game you should probably just not make accusations like this and quietly make some $.

If anything, this action can only lead to the wife colluding with you

I agree with this wholely