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2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? 2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here?

01-18-2015 , 03:02 PM
I played this hand in the Bellagio mixed game last weekend. Everyone in the game is a regular and/or a pro, I’ve been playing with all of these opponents for several hours, except UTG who is new to the game but knows everyone there.

UTG limps (note this is the first open limp I can recall in several hours of playing draw games), 2 calls, button raises. Hero is in the SB with 246xx, and I call (??). BB calls as does everyone else, we’re 5-way to the first draw.

Hero draws to (246)79, everyone else draws 2 (maybe someone drew 3?) except for button who draws 1. It checks to button, who bets. Hero just calls (??), and all call.

Now I decide to pat my 9 here. My thought process is that with all of these players in the hand, many of the cards that are going to improve my hand are gone, and I’m going to force others to outdraw me.

I lead the betting, all fold except the button who raises. I call, draw a brick (button of course patted), then fold to his bet.

My post-hand analysis is that 1) I should have 3-bet predraw and 2) if I planned to pat, then I should have checkraised after the first draw and tried to get the pot heads-up. If 2) was successful then I would decide if patting was okay based on whether the button 3-bet. Being out of position is, as always, a huge disadvantage here since I won't know if the button is still drawing.

As played, was patting here a bad idea?
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-18-2015 , 05:27 PM
Yes patting was awful. Predraw is fine
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-18-2015 , 09:00 PM
What DD said, also don't 3b pre. Why do you want to?
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-18-2015 , 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeRocks
What DD said, also don't 3b pre. Why do you want to?
Because I likely have the 2nd best starting hand behind the button, and there's some possibility to thin the herd. As I mentioned in my OP, I hadn't seen an open limp yet in this game so I don't know if anyone will fold say a 3 card draw for 2 bets.
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-19-2015 , 12:01 AM
Although the fact that the field has over limped behind utg is sorta problematic (e.g. wtf does their over limping range look like?), if we assign them reasonableish ranges, your hand suffers from the fact that the equities of many three-card hands run close together pre-draw. Moreso, any competent button should be 4-betting all 1-card draws to trap the field. Now you are going to have to play a bloated multiway pot oop, which makes your decisions on every subsequent street more difficult.
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-20-2015 , 05:45 AM
Flat pre. As noted, you are in awful shape vs D1 button and will be OOP to all opponents so don't put yourself in that situation with a D2 hand. if you have a playable D1 hand you raise for value and to clean-up the rougher hands you may opt to pat early.

On the first draw if you intend to pat a 97 then yes you should c/r but you can c/r with 76 draw as well, so your drawing decision should be predicated on how many opponents continue after the c/r and what quality of hands they might continue with. You didn't mention showdown hands but those are critical for the opponents who are passively coming along. If you see somebody show down hands like 97654 or other nonsense indicating a weak D2 opening range/poor drawing decisions then you should more strongly consider patting since your opponents will sometimes be drawing to worse. If your opponents usually have cards indicating strong starting hands then your draw becomes more valuable, as it is still a favorite over quality draws that can't make a Seven but can suffer some action if you make a hand. You aren't going to love life if you bet your 97 into two drawing hands and get raised, but c/c lets them have a free shot at getting value for the hands they do make while not protecting your range of early pat hands.
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-21-2015 , 02:57 AM
Only big mistake was no c/r after 1st draw. You have a good 7 draw and are in the best possible position to make this play with the aggressor directly to your right. I'm not saying to pat the 9 but to c/r then draw to the 7. You said that your playing good opponents here so you want your c/r's to be a mix of 1-card draws and pats or you will be very predictable. Mixing up your play vs tough opponents is another good reason to also reraise before the 1st draw. Like you said, you have the 2nd best hand here vs multiple opponents so if there is ever a time to balance your raising range it's now instead of trying it in a bad spot later just for the sake of balancing.
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-21-2015 , 05:55 PM
People are advocating x/r and draw 1? I hate that OOP, unless the table is comprised completely of megafish.
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-21-2015 , 06:19 PM
I really don't like cr with the intention of drawing one here either. You can balance your cr range simply by having a reasonable distribution of hands (e.g. Everything you'd pat with, which isn't always going to be 7's). It's way way more unbalanced to have a cr-draw-1 distribution and a c/c draw-1 distribution imo.
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-21-2015 , 06:31 PM
The c/r while drawing is to force folds from in-between hands in jeopardy. Being HU cleans up say, a Jack or Ten you make on the turn. You can c/r pat if you get it HU versus some villains who won't punish you with Eights or good Nines, or who will fold draws with significant equity on the turn. If the other hands call two cold and continue drawing 2, then you and the button are both still making money by drawing one against them.
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote
01-21-2015 , 06:43 PM
There is an analog in stud where you c/r with a hand that may not be in great shape multiway but does fine HU, so the raise is functional rather than purely related to your holding. You will have a naturally balanced c/r range here, some strong pats, some weak pats, some decent 1CD, some blocker snow hands.
2-7 multiway hand, should I pat here? Quote

      
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