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Old 01-02-2007, 04:29 PM   #1
Tom Bayes
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Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

FAQ version 2.1.- under construction - Buzz 2-14-08

Welcome to Other Poker. The FAQ and guidelines is a revision of the original written by Tapirboy, revised by Tom Bayes, and being again revised by Buzz with the help of Phat Mack (and anyone else who wants to be included and comes up with something worth including herein).

I'm unlocking this thread so that any of the regular posters here can add suggestions to FAQs. (I'll give you credit if you have a question and answer that should be included, or if you write a URL to a 2+2 thread or post that has already ably answered a frequently asked question). Thanks in advance for any help. - Buzz, 2-14-08

Games covered on this forum:

There are special forums for
• Texas hold 'em,
• Stud and razz,
• Omaha-high-only, and
• Omaha-8.

Any other poker variation qualifies as "other."

But "other" poker games might be discussed on various forums, not just the one specific forum which has been designated as the "other poker games" or "OPG" forum.

For example, "other" poker games might be discussed on the tournament forum, one of the MTT forums, the probability forum, the heads-up forum, the internet gambling forum, the beats, brags and variance forum, the home games forum - or any other forum where discussion of "other" poker games might be appropriate.

The "Other Poker" forum is here for discussion of casino poker games not covered in the rest of 2+2. Poker variations to be discussed on this forum include
• A-5 Lowball,
• Badugi,
• Chowaha
• Crazy Pineapple,
• Five Card Draw,
• Kansas City Lowball,
• Mississippi Stud, (??)
• Pineapple
• Triple Draw Lowball,
• 2-7 Lowball, and
• Watermelon.

Games covered on other forums:

• Non-casino variants such as Baseball and Follow the Queen belong in Home Poker.
• Omaha high is discussed in the Omaha-high forum. Omaha High forum.
• Omaha-8 (high/low split Omaha) is discussed in the Omaha -8 forum.
• Razz is discussed in the stud forum. stud forum.

If you're not sure if you should post here or somewhere else, go ahead and post here and we'll move the discussion to another 2+2 forum if it doesn't belong here.

Posting suggestions:

The main thing is please be courteous to other posters on this forum. We're all here to have a little fun while discussing some non-main******** variation of poker.

Most hand posts on this forum are done with raw hand histories. Euri10 made a converter for UB triple draw histories that can be found here. Greenage made a convert for PokerStars triple draw histories that can be found here. We appreciate their hard work and encourage the use of converters when posting triple draw hand histories. If anyone wants to work on a converter for other games, your work will be much appreciated. UB hand histories can be captured via Ultimate History or GameTime+.

Videos

Some existing videos of DeathDonkey and *TT* playing 2-7 triple draw can be found here.

Frequently Asked Questions

For general questions, please read the FAQs below before posting.

Q. All these games are very confusing. Where can I read the rules?

Unfortunately the rules may differ from one locality to another.

Some games have more or less standard rules from one place to another, but it's generally best to find the rules for each particular location the game is spread.

Q. Where can I find on-line descriptions of some of these games?

• Doyle’s Room: Badugi
• PokerRoom: Chinese Poker
• Stars: 2-7 Triple Draw
• 24hPoker: Sökö,Telesina,Americana
• UB: Triple Draw
• UB: Crazy Pineapple
• UB: Crazy Pineapple Hi/Lo

Q. Where can I play these games on-line?

There are many online rooms, both major and minor, that spread “Other Poker” games. Please PM Buzz (moderator) if the following bulletted list needs to be updated.

• B2B Network:
Pot Limit Draw cash games, SNGs, and MTTs
2-7 Triple Draw cash games & MTTs
PL Sökö cash games & tournaments
PL Telesina and Americana cash games

• Full Tilt:
HORSE cash games, SNGs, MTTs
HOSE cash games
HA (half PLHE/half PLO) cash games

• GamesGrid Poker:
2-7 Triple Draw cash games
Weekly NL Kansas City Lowball tournament (i.e. 2-7 single draw) on Thursday night
Dealer's Choice (HORSE games) cash games and tournaments

• Ongame Network:
Limit and PL Draw High cash games
Pot Limit Draw High SNGs and MTTs

• Paradise Poker:
Limit Draw High cash games
Crazy Pineapple cash games
Crazy Pineapple Hi/Lo cash games

• Planet Poker:
Limit Draw High cash games, SNGs, and MTTs
Pot Limit Draw High cash games
$pike reports Planet Poker shut down its cash games about 10 months ago (because of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act) and has replaced them with a "play-chippie/subscription concept."

• Poker.com:
Rumored to be adding several "other games" including Draw High, Triple Draw, and Badugi.

• PokerStars:
2-7 Triple Draw cash games (Limit, PL, NL) and MTTs (Limit)
Draw High cash games (Limit, PL, NL) and MTTs (PL)
HORSE cash games, SNGs, MTTs
HOSE cash games and SNGs.

• Tribeca Network:
Limit and Half-Pot Limit Badugi cash games

• UltimateBet:
2-7 Triple Draw cash games
A-5 Triple Draw cash games
Crazy Pineapple cash games
Crazy Pineapple Hi/Lo cash games
HORSE cash games
HOSE cash games
HA (half Holdem, half Omaha) cash games

Q. Can I get rakeback or signup deals for those sites?

Usually. Ask each site directly.

Q. Where can I play these games live?

We'd generally like to know that, too. In particular, please make a thread if you play a mixed game in a casino for low to medium stakes.

Q. What books are there for these games?

See the 2+2 books and publications forum for more information or you can post here to ask a question about a specific game.

Q. What web resources are there for these games?

• Badugi:
An article by Chris Fargis
An article by DeathDonkey

• Chinese Poker:
Don Smolen's Chinese Poker Site

• Chowaha:
Wolf's Chowaha page.

• Crazy Pineapple:
Crazy Pineapple for Advanced Players by Jerrod Ankenman

• Draw High:
An article by Micheal Wiesenberg.
More Wiesenberg articles at Cardplayer.com about draw and A-5 lowball.

• Lowball:
Lowballgurus
LowballWiki.

• Mississippi Stud
David Zanetti's Mississippi Stud page
Note:Andy B. the moderator for the stud forum is going to take a look at this FAQ over the week end. I'll leave this here for now, but if Andy feels Mississippi stud discussions belong on the Stud Forum, so be it. - Buzz

• Triple Draw Lowball:
An article by Howard Lederer
Another article by Howard Lederer
An article by Michael Wiesenberg
Lowballgurus
LowballWiki.
An article by Mark Gritter
An article by Chris Fargis
An article by DeathDonkey
Another article by DeathDonkey[/QUOTE]

************************************************

Last edited by Buzz; 02-18-2008 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:59 PM   #2
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Under Web Resources, for all things lowball, there should be a link to Lowballgurus (which will also provide a working link to the Mark Gritter article mentioned above) and to their LowballWiki.

More suggestions coming...
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:32 PM   #3
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

More suggestions coming...

David Zanetti's Mississippi Stud page;

Wolf's Chowaha page.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:20 AM   #4
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Mack View Post
Hi Mack - I put your references in the FAQ for now, but maybe discussions of Mississippi Stud belong elsewhere - either on the Stud forum or the home forum.

Mississippi Stud is not dealt in Southern California casinos but I'm assuming, since you suggested it, that maybe it's dealt in casinos elsewhere. I think a first rule of thumb to apply here is if the poker variant is not dealt in casinos, then discussions belong on the home poker forum.
And then the second rule of thumb to apply is if it's a stud game it belongs on the stud forum. Mississippi stud seems more or less a variant of seven stud, with the last two cards dealt together and up, so as to make four betting rounds instead of five, and so as to make five up and two down cards instead of four up and three down. We'll see what Andy has to say about where it belongs and abide by that.

We actually played Chowaha in a casino (at the Bike) one year. They called it 2-C-M-F-O (two-card, multi-flop Omaha) and we all got special shirts for it with 2-C-M-F-O stitched on the sleeve. As I understand it, someone came up with that name to get around a city ordinance regarding games that could be played at the Bike. Since we called it a variant of Omaha, it was somehow O.K. and we played it for a while in the casino before actually having the world championship in the casino. (But then the next year we were back to having the annual Chowaha world championship in someone's private room across the street). So I don't know if that qualifies Chowaha as belonging here with the casino games, or if it belongs in the home poker forum. I'm inclined to leave it here until one of the home poker forum moderators claims it for the home poker forum.

Anyhow, Mack, thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

Buzz

Last edited by Buzz; 02-15-2008 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:06 PM   #5
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

I have seen Mississippi Stud spread in casinos, and can see how it might belong in the Stud Forum. I've seen chowaha played in casinos during BARGE. For that matter, I've seen double-flop diagonal indian chowaha spread at the Ventian.

I'm not sure about the "played-in-casinos" test. I've always thought of the Other Games forum as a refuge for people who wanted to explore non-standard games: games that don't have their own forum, or weird variations of games that do. I've seen 'toy' games discussed here, proposed games, recent inventions, etc. I guess that I'd prefer that there not be too many restrictions on what can be discussed here.
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Old 02-15-2008, 05:24 PM   #6
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
I think a first rule of thumb to apply here is if the poker variant is not dealt in casinos, then discussions belong on the home poker forum.
While they might find more respondents in HP, if it's not a casino-spread game, we won't be offended if it's posted here.

But I see no reason why the OP mods shouldn't move non-B&M discussions to the Home Poker forum. Do it if it serves the needs of the forum members.

Now, the question about games played in underground clubs, those really aren't "home poker" to me (even if it's held in someone's house, an underground club is NOT a home poker game)

Quote:
So I don't know if that qualifies Chowaha as belonging here with the casino games, or if it belongs in the home poker forum. I'm inclined to leave it here until one of the home poker forum moderators claims it for the home poker forum.
We don't "claim" anything in Home Poker. It's just like our games- if you want to join us- great! Happy to have ya. If you want to stay out in the cold, cruel, uncaring, bleak landscape of non-HP, that's certainly your choice.


Chowaha, to me, is a b&m game that can be incorporated into the Other Poker or Omaha groups. I wouldn't think it needs to move to Home Poker unless there's a specific home game reason to do so.
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Old 02-15-2008, 05:27 PM   #7
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Mack View Post
I'm not sure about the "played-in-casinos" test. I've always thought of the Other Games forum as a refuge for people who wanted to explore non-standard games: games that don't have their own forum, or weird variations of games that do. I've seen 'toy' games discussed here, proposed games, recent inventions, etc. I guess that I'd prefer that there not be too many restrictions on what can be discussed here.
What, our neighborhood up there seems a little scary to you? :P

That's up to this group. Certainly it's likely that the more unusual games may only have an experienced audience in home poker games (assuming that's where they sprung up, as most poker games have) and it could be more effective for people to post there, rather than here.... but I don't spend enough time here to say that.

I'm going to read the proposed FAQ now.

Last edited by Lottery Larry; 02-15-2008 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 02-15-2008, 05:37 PM   #8
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:

Games covered on this forum:

The "Other Poker" forum is here for discussion of casino poker games not covered in the rest of 2+2. Poker variations to be discussed on this forum include
• A-5 Lowball,
• Badugi,
• Chowaha (?)
• Crazy Pineapple,
• Five Card Draw,
• Kansas City Lowball,
• Mississippi Stud, (??)
• Pineapple
• Triple Draw Lowball,
• 2-7 Lowball, and
• Watermelon (?).

Games covered on other forums:

• Non-casino variants such as Baseball and Follow the Queen belong in Home Poker.
• Omaha high is discussed in the Omaha-high forum. Omaha High forum.
• Omaha-8 (high/low split Omaha) is discussed in the Omaha -8 forum.
• Razz is discussed in the stud forum. stud forum.

Is the idea of this forum that, for these "atypical" casino room poker games, that posting in OP would be more effective for members... because they are more likely to have played the unusual poker variants, if they've played one, in a casino?

Or is it that it's too easy for posts on Chowaha, KC lowball and others to get lost in the "main" poker game forums? Because, to me, some of the game types in your list would "seem" to belong in stud (Mississ), Omaha (Chowaha) or Limit hold'em (Pineapple) main forums... because of the structure.


As to whether something should be in HP or OP- frankly, the demarcation line I've always used between "Home Poker" and "not home poker" is whether it's a home game vs. a casino or underground card room game.

This separation is around the differences between the two "types" of poker establishments:

- Player mix, accountability and repeatability
- Professional dealer/security and management
- Rake and other charges
- Strictness, completeness and generic nature of the "house" rules

.... and what the changes in any strategy or attendance might mean.

Other than that, a poker game is a poker game, no matter where it's played. As for what advice should be given, that may be dependent on the "type" of poker game it is.


Buzz, I'm not sure if my replies helped or not, or were what you were looking for. If there are some things that you want to filter out of OP into HP.... hey, we're ALWAYS happy to have someone show up at our games, as long as they have a trusted reference to back them up :P

Certainly, any wild-card and crazy games would seem to belong in Home Poker, but we won't be offended if they're discussed here instead. They probably make more sense in our side of the sandbox....

Last edited by Lottery Larry; 02-15-2008 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 02-16-2008, 11:12 AM   #9
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Hi Lottery Larry - Thanks for responding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottery Larry View Post
Is the idea of this forum that, for these "atypical" casino room poker games, that posting in OP would be more effective for members... because they are more likely to have played the unusual poker variants, if they've played one, in a casino?
I’m trying to get straight what the idea of this forum is. When I started here, I saw this forum as Phat Mack does, as a catch-all forum for strategy discussions of games that do not have their own forums.

But then there is also the Home Games forum, which seems a place where “discussions of home poker games” take place. And the previous FAQ made reference to baseball and follow the queen as examples of varieties of poker that should be discussed on the home poker forum.

Yet discussions of Badugi, triple draw low ball, crazy pineapple, and draw poker seem to belong on this forum.

And thus my dilemma in revising the FAQ.

Which games not already specifically mentioned in the previous FAQ belong in the OPG forum and which games belong in the HP forum? I honestly don’t know.

Or should the home poker forum be primarily for procedures, etiquette, home tournaments, rulings, costs, fairness, snacks, cheating, and dealing? I think it’s a nice idea to have a place for discussion of such issues. And that would leave strategy and theory discussions of other poker games primarily for the other poker games forum.

Or some games could be included in one of the forums and other games in the other, the way is more or less seems now. (But I'm not sure what belongs where).

I don’t think it matters to someone interested in Badugi strategy, for example, whether that game strategy is discussed on the HP forum or the OPG forum (just so long as there’s a forum for the discussion of Badugi strategy and everyone can easily determine which forum). And it doesn’t matter to me either.

I’m just trying to write a FAQ for the OPG forum to make it clear what should be discussed on this forum.

To me, ideally, it seems like some games could be discussed on one of the two forums (or three forums, if we include the stud forum) and other games could be discussed on another forum.

You could think of Chowaha as a variant of Omaha-high. But I don’t think the Omaha-high people want discussions of Chowaha mucking up their forum. Similarly, I don’t know how the stud people, who already have to contend with razz, would feel about having Mississippi stud or other stud variants added to their forum.

I don’t want to redefine any boundaries, although if you like, this is an opportunity for us to do that. Mainly I’m just trying to ascertain what the boundaries are. They’re not clear to me.
Quote:
Or is it that it's too easy for posts on Chowaha, KC lowball and others to get lost in the "main" poker game forums? Because, to me, some of the game types in your list would "seem" to belong in stud (Mississ), Omaha (Chowaha) or Limit hold'em (Pineapple) main forums... because of the structure.
I can see that way of looking at it, but if it were Chowaha-8 for example, I would not want discussions of that game mixed in with regular Omaha-8 discussions. And it that case, what is the point of the Other Poker Games forum.
Quote:
As to whether something should be in HP or OP- frankly, the demarcation line I've always used between "Home Poker" and "not home poker" is whether it's a home game vs. a casino or underground card room game.
I can live with that if that’s how you want it. It’s a vague boundary to me, but I’ll do as well as I can with it.
Quote:
This separation is around the differences between the two "types" of poker establishments:

- Player mix, accountability and repeatability
- Professional dealer/security and management
- Rake and other charges
- Strictness, completeness and generic nature of the "house" rules

.... and what the changes in any strategy or attendance might mean.

Other than that, a poker game is a poker game, no matter where it's played. As for what advice should be given, that may be dependent on the "type" of poker game it is.
Agreed. For example, the strategy for playing Omaha-8 in a home game is different from on-line, and that’s different from in a brick and mortar casino. Still, it’s good to have pot-limit Omaha-8 all in the same place, and also fixed-limit Omaha-8 all in the same place. (Pot limit and fixed limit Omaha-8s happen to be in the same forum now, but that may not always be the case).
Quote:
Buzz, I'm not sure if my replies helped or not, or were what you were looking for.
Yes they have helped. Thanks. I’m looking for direction. And this is an opportunity for clarity.
Quote:
If there are some things that you want to filter out of OP into HP.... hey, we're ALWAYS happy to have someone show up at our games, as long as they have a trusted reference to back them up :P
Thanks.
Quote:
Certainly, any wild-card and crazy games would seem to belong in Home Poker, but we won't be offended if they're discussed here instead. They probably make more sense in our side of the sandbox....
That’s music to my ears. Can I come and play in your sandbox too if I bring some crazy games with me like banana? (four card double vertical and horizontal Chowaha high/low with a banana).

Buzz
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:52 PM   #10
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:
I don’t want to redefine any boundaries, although if you like, this is an opportunity for us to do that. Mainly I’m just trying to ascertain what the boundaries are. They’re not clear to me.
I'm not sure that boundaries were ever defined, they just seemed to evolve. It may even be viable to have the FAQ state something like, "Currently, Other Poker is a forum to discuss strategy for games that don't have their own forum..."

Quote:
Or should the home poker forum be primarily for procedures, etiquette, home tournaments, rulings, costs, fairness, snacks, cheating, and dealing?
I drop in on HG occasionally, and that seems to be the current state of its evolution; most posts there concern the mechanics of starting and running home games.

jmo
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:15 AM   #11
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

• Planet Poker:
Limit Draw High cash games, SNGs, and MTTs
Pot Limit Draw High cash games


Sadly, Planet Poker shut down its cash games about 10 months ago [uigea]
and has replaced it with some play-chippie/subscription concept.

$pike
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Old 02-17-2008, 04:44 PM   #12
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by spike420211 View Post
• Planet Poker:
Limit Draw High cash games, SNGs, and MTTs
Pot Limit Draw High cash games


Sadly, Planet Poker shut down its cash games about 10 months ago [uigea]
and has replaced it with some play-chippie/subscription concept.

$pike
Hi $pike - Thanks. What does "[uigea]" mean?

Buzz
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:49 PM   #13
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Mack View Post
I'm not sure that boundaries were ever defined, they just seemed to evolve.
There are special forums for
• Texas hold 'em,
• Stud and razz,
• Omaha-high-only, and
• Omaha-8.

Any other poker variation seems to me to qualify as "other."

But "other" poker games might be discussed on various forums, not just the one specific forum which has been designated as the "other poker games" or "OPG" forum.

For example, "other" poker games might be discussed on the tournament forum, one of the MTT forums, the probability forum, the heads-up forum, the internet gambling forum, the beats, brags and variance forum, the home games forum - or any other forum where discussion of "other" poker games might be appropriate.

I read the already existing FAQ and got to thinking about putting some "other" poker games in the stud forum, others in the home games forum, and leaving some here. But that doesn't seem to work well.

After having a while to mull it over, I think it's better to not draw the boundary lines on the basis of what the particular "other" game is, but rather in the context of the discussion of the "other" game. And I think that's what Lottery Larry meant.

Discussions about playing "other" games in home poker games belong in the home poker forum.

Discussions is about theory, strategy and general tactics of "other" games belong here. And discussion about playing "other" games in a casino or on an on-line site belong here too.

So if that's O.K. with everybody, that's how I'll try to slant the FAQ. And I'll try to move threads that seem to belong better in other forums into other forums, always leaving a marker so that those interested can easily access them.

I'm still very interested in feed-back, especially URLs to past outstanding 2+2 OPG forum threads about various "other" poker games, which I can then paste into the FAQ.

We'll eventually get there.

Thanks.

Buzz
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:52 AM   #14
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

I'm still very interested in feed-back, especially URLs to past outstanding 2+2 OPG forum threads about various "other" poker games, which I can then paste into the FAQ.

I've been spending some spare moments looking for old threads, but haven't quite figured out how to search some of the archives.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:44 PM   #15
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
Hi $pike - Thanks. What does "[uigea]" mean?

Buzz
He meant the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIEGA).
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:31 PM   #16
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

re:hand histories
i just downloaded some HH's from Stars 2day...
i can put up w/ the reverse chronological order[kinda dum tho imo]
but now when i copy/paste to Word Pad, all the dam carraige returns disappeared... looks like a wall of text.
on top of i'd hafta reformat 4 here anyways.
any suggestions?
[note: this doesn't happen on Tilt's HH's at all]
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:50 PM   #17
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by spike420211 View Post
re:hand histories
i just downloaded some HH's from Stars 2day...
i can put up w/ the reverse chronological order[kinda dum tho imo]
but now when i copy/paste to Word Pad, all the dam carraige returns disappeared... looks like a wall of text.
on top of i'd hafta reformat 4 here anyways.
any suggestions?
[note: this doesn't happen on Tilt's HH's at all]
Hi Spike - Sometimes there's some sort of mark at the beginning or end of each line. If so, we can do a search (for the mark) and replace with "^p" (without the quotes) for the whole document. That puts paragraph breaks in at the end of each line.

Hard to tell if that will work or not or if we can solve your problem or not without knowing exactly what you're up against. If you copy and paste a section of what you're up against in a response to this post, I'll see what I can do with it and report back to you.

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Old 03-02-2008, 02:29 AM   #18
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

I don't know anything about Word Pad, but you might check to see if it has some kind of "paste with formatting" option in its edit menu.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:54 AM   #19
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Re: Other Poker FAQ, Version 2.0

tried it again this a.m. ... it works!

ps support was kewl about it too.
they said nothing should've failed, they were right.
they were willing 2 re-send the HH's again, nice guys, imo.
phat mack, buzz... thx for the advice, i'll keep that on my backburner.

$pike
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