best set for J9ss972ddd, first to act in a HU game

this is not a great hand

I dont like going for the flushes with a hand like this, esp not heads up.

the problem is that your higher flush is the two fulsh, so you have the not too great choice of putting your bigger flush draw in the middle or your less complete flush draw in the middle.

so im a lot happier with something like 97ddj92sss... this way, i can put my 2 suited connectors in the middle and if i catch like got, i can get paid off instead of having to draw against default.

but the fact that our spades are also connectors still makes me inclined to give a suited arrangement a shot.

---
js9s---
7d2d9d--


If the hand develops correctly (that is to say, i get a large diamond to put downstairs prett5y quicky) i8 can draw at a flush in the middle.


if my high spade is a q, i probably stick the spades up top or break them up. this is because its less likely for me to get what i need to continue the flush, and i connect worse for the possible straights. for example, if i have qs9s,

qs9s-
-----
9d7d2d--

or

qs--
9s----
9d7d2d--

in this particular case, im more inclined top put both up top because my 9 isnt live.... i stick the Q up top because Q-high tends to work well up top. Its easy to beat with a completely undeveloped middle and if things go just right i can still go for fantasy land.

also, before i start developing my middle, i want to see if i can develop my bottom a little. the way things stand right now, i want little, live cards in the middle. because if thingsw go south and i have to go for pairs on the bottom, i want to be able to pair the middle without worrying about default.

SO if i get to like 8th and diamkonds got deadder and i don0t have any, i want to be able to stick 1 9 downstairs if i get one. but if i get a card that pairs my middle first, i want to be abloe to play that.

If my opponent is crazy aggro though, i might go for a safer setup like
---
72---
99j--

338 in the middle and 74 downstairs you mean? this is definitely wrong. If you are going to set the hand toi go for FL with QQ+,2p, 2p, it is much better to set it

334, 78.

why would put your higher card in the middle, esp when it connects better and is liver for straights on the bottom?

If the 7 or 8 were not very live, i might consider doing it this way, but id be more likely to go for the flush.

duh -- i get it, because its suited.

IMO, you sacrifice more even trying for FL by taking the away the third flush card than you gain by starting with a pair of threes up top. By starting with two to the suit rather than 3, you cut your chances of making the flush in half.... the extra equitry you get from starting with a pair in the middle isnt worth it. esp a small pair that will almost never win you middle on its own.

the problem with 338-74 is that its practically impossible to make 2 pair in the middle and beat it on the bottom without the flush. You cant make 8833 in the middle or youre drawing dead to runner runner trips or runner runner runner flush. If youre really going to try this for FL, youre going to put a q, K or A up top. so if you want another live card downstairs, its going to have to be a 9, t or j.

334-78 works better because it lets both your middle and your bottom develop as quickly as possible even if you dont get the third flush card pretty quickly.....

but i still like 3 to the flush on the bottom better.

pretty much agree, I was first to act which is obviously worth mentioning. I think first to act playing the safer route of J99s on bottom is probably best IMO. Of course if your IP then it changes everything.

"building for broadway" is probably one of the worst plays in the game (on the whole) unless you're dealt 10JQK to start. Double gutter? And with all of your biggest cards on the bottom? Your best potential is a +2 royalty, and you're likely to get totally scooped if you miss with all your big cards on bottom (A high in the middle, or Q high up top can sometimes save you a scoop, and those aren't even big gambles). Broadway is a silly play...

I would either do

A6
4Q10

(flush draw, pair of A for fantasy in middle)

or

Q
A X
XX

depending on whether 4, 6, or 10 is more live (2 most live, connected cards on bottom).

338 bottom 74 middle...

* Sorry for the long post, I'm not sure how to format this to make it easy to read without adding a bunch of line breaks.

I did some work with these hands. I included the top 6 best sets and how their average points per opponent differ from the best set. This is Non-Fantasy. I also included with Fantasy for fun.

First Open - NON-FL

X
Ad 6d
Qs Ts 4s

PT: 0.000


6d
Ad
Qs Ts 4s

PT: -0.0265


Ad
6d
Qs Ts 4s

PT: -0.12775


4s
6d
Ad Qs Ts

PT: -0.257


X
6d 4s
Ad Qs Ts

PT:-0.51875


X
Ts 4s
Ad 6d Qs

PT: -1.03975


First Open - Fantasy Land

6d
Ad
Qs Ts 4s

PT: 0.000


X
Ad 6d
Qs Ts 4s

PT: -0.021


Ad
6d
Qs Ts 4s

PT: -0.361


X
6d 4s
Ad Qs Ts

PT: -0.735


Ad 6d
X
Qs Ts 4s

PT: -0.845


X
Ad 6d Ts
Qs 4s

PT: -1.549


As the numbers show, the middle A6 is about equivalent to the front 6, middle A. As others said in previous posts, the broadway in back set is giving up quite a bit of equity. It also makes sense that the 4 front and 6 middle set isn't even in the top 6 for fantasyland since you are basically giving up on fantasy.

I believe the reason the Queen front and Ace middle doesn't show up for either is that you are giving up too much on the flush, and since you are first opener, you have to play more conservative until you know where you are standing in regard to your opponents.

6 6 4 4 2

what´s the best set?

I assume your'e OOP HU? Im still debating if 6644/2/x is better than 66/442/x tbh. HU IP im setting the 2 pair at the bottom vs no blockers.

Kelly Brook

Great posts guys, thanks. I ended up following the advice here and setting A6 in the middle and Q104 in back. I just feel like you're in a tough spot if the hand doesn't develop right tho. But, I suck, so there's that.

Going to keep playing and experimenting. Love this thread!

First opener? If not, what did your opponents set?

Goodness, what is it about those british chicks?!

/derail

Assuming 6s or 4s are live, I'm down for

2
-
6 6 4 4

Playing for the boat on the bottom with a shot at putting up a high pair on top.

The other day I had AQJT2, heads up, first to act, with fantasyland.

I set

2
JT
AQ

Any alternatives?

Where did these magic equities come from?

Hi guys. Interesting reading the strategies here.

Dealt this OOP:

As Js Jc 5c 4s

Should I set it

-
J5cc
AJ4ss

And hope that I still have live outs and also plan to put next live card in middle eventually hoping to make a pair 66-TT up top.

Can I play the jacks in the back?

I am unsure what would be the optimal line here.

This type of hand with 2 small pair auto plays itself IMO.

X
2
4466
2 is not a strong performer up top unless you already have a pair in the middle. If im utg im putting every 5th card (with 4466 bottom) no matter a 2 or ace in the middle. If im 2nd to act and my 5th card is like 8-Jack and my opponent has a pair of my 5th then I will set it up top.

I would put the 2s on the bottom. Is it really worth putting it up top on the small chance you get a royal?

AQ2sss bottom
J-10 middle

That's one of the things I was wondering about. If we put it on the bottom, what do we do if we draw another two (and or opponent doesn't have too many spades)? Abandon the flush and go for two pair or better or put in the middle/top?

Also, would we be more inclined to put the 2 on top if our hand was AsQs2s 7c8d, giving us straight and flush possibilities with AsQs on the bottom?

Playing a low, non-royalty card on top, especially if it's live, seems like a bad play. What if you pull a two? There's a lot of value in a pair of twos in the middle, and no value at all to two rows of two-high...

If I didn't set 3 to the flush (with J-middle, T-top) (and which also depends on how well I'm running/my opponents are playing) would set

Q
A2
JT

Connected cards on the bottom can run to a straight (which is only 2pts less than a flush) while allowing me to build to a big hand. I'll often go for the 3-flush, unless cards of the suits give me a direct path to FL, and an A-Q definitely does. At minimum, I only need a Q, an A, and two pair for a 7 royalty (almost double a flush) and fantasyland. Three to the flush is generally a 50-65% hit, so I only need to go to FL on a set like this 20% of the time for it to be as profitable, if not much, much more...

Instead of going for two flushes, I prefer this set:

---
A4
JJ5

It leaves you able get 2 pair in back, Aces in the middle, and possibly a royalty or high cards up top.

PT is defined as the average points per opponent with the hand lost with a set vs the optimal set.

F: Q M: 2 B: A J T PT: -0.706
F: Q 2 M: Xx B: A J T PT: -0.570
F: Xx M: 2 B: A J Q T PT: -0.584
F: A 2 M: Xx B: J Q T PT: -0.417
F: 2 M: Xx B: A J Q T PT: -0.267
F: Xx M: J T B: A Q 2 PT: +0.000

This is a pretty interesting hand. The first two a pretty equivalent, which makes sense since 4 ~ 5. The higher variance set is going for the Ace up front, obviously trying to get to Fantasyland or just to try to sweep if you hit your other hands. Two flushes is not in top 6 sets.

F: Xx M: A 4 B: J J 5 PT: +0.000
F: Xx M: A 5 B: J J 4 PT: -0.106
F: A M: 4 B: J J 5 PT: -0.217
F: 5 M: A B: J J 4 PT: -0.420
F: Xx M: 5 4 B: A J J PT: -0.513
F: J 5 M: Xx B: A J 4 PT: -0.535