I find myself in these situations often, and I am not sure what's the best play. Suppose we're heads up and OOP. Fantasy Land is active with Queens up top. I don't know what's best.

a) Spades in back with the Tens in the middle.

b) Tens in back with the Spades in the middle.

c) Some other set up.

6-5-2-T-T

I'd def play spades/TT/

With no high spades I set.
5
6
TT2

If there is 1 spade >T. I go for spades in back.

+1

str8 flush tho.
gotta dream big bro.

Heads up, you're just trying to make a decent hand and you're already starting with a decent pair. When starting with 3 to the flush, you only make it a little over half the time.

Sure, there are 10 spades left, but there are 15 cards to come (2-6 non spade) that are going to be decision makers on whether or not you're going to give up on the flush and try to start making a 2pr or better in the back. It's going to come to too many decisions that really if you don't hit a spade in the first few next cards, you'll really need to give up on the flush and now the pressure is on. So even though you're better than 50% to make it, most of the time you're not going to give yourself the chance to get there by sticking til the end. Risking losing 6 points for a shot at 4 for the flush isn't worth it against just one opponent.

If I have 4 spades, I go for the flush. Or if it's a pair vs. 3 spades that are bigger than it, I'll go with the spades, because at least I can pair up bigger than the smaller pair in the middle. But with the sitch given, if you start with TT in the middle, you're forced to make 2 pair instead of just 1 which is significantly tougher.

As is, I go TT2 in the back, and 65 in the middle. The reason why you put the 5 in the middle with the 6 is a few reasons:

1.If you put it up top and then pull a 5, you're really putting yourself in a bad spot if you pair it up top because then you need to pull exactly a 6, or another card between 5 and T and then pair it.

2. Straight potential in the middle

3. A pair of 5s up top isn't even a royalty.

reason #1 being the most important. The most important thing I've learned so far playing Chinese is don't place a card in a hand that you can't confidently pair up if you pull it on the next card. You really want to set yourself up to make your back as strong as possible ASAP (or at least with the most potential to be strong ASAP) because you can't confidently build strength in the middle or the top until you do. That's the main reason why you put the 2 in the back with the TT, for example.

^^ Nice post, agree completely.

I second that

We only lose 6 if we foul or are scooped. Otherwise, we are really risking loosing 1. When we win with a flush we are winning 4 *plus* other lines, so we are winning 5, or 10 if we scoop.

When our flush matures in back, we can build a very strong middle hand that can support a royalty pair on top.

For these reasons, breaking a SINGLE pair for a three flush in back has substantial advantages.

In the case of


X
TT
562.

We risk a foul if we fail to make the flush in back. BUT, with a TT middle, we can put the next 6 through 9 that come up top In The first two spots, looking to make a royalty pair worth between 1 and 4 points.

If we fail to spike the 4th by 7th street, then we take the first 5,6,2 that falls, looking to make two pair or trips in back. If the 4th flush card comes before we pair the back, then we continue to look to finish the flush. If the 4th flush card was J+ then we can take the next of that value to make a JJ+ pair if it comes before the flush

While it is true we make the flush only 50%, hitting the flush is worth more than 4 points because we have the potential royalties in top PLUS the greater chance of scooping our opponent.

Remember that winning two lines is only worth one point. Winning all three is worth 6. Winning only one line is worth -1.


Flush back, strong pair middle and royalty pair top is the best chance to scoop. If our final hand is


797
TTK38
562JQ

We are going to scoop much of the time for a total of 12 points. If we fail to scoop (say lose middle) then we still get 7 points.


Compare that to the Initial set of TT2/56/x where we might end up with

7JQ
56K37
TT289

Depending on how the cards fall, we might have to avoid fouling and end up with no pair in the middle - this hand is not likely to scoop, though is has a good chance to block a scoop, so is probably worth -1. If the cards fall in an order that we can make a Better middle, such as:

9JQ
56K77
TT283

Then we might win the top two, and only lose in back, for +1. But still a weak hand that is overall a loser, and only scoops if our opponent fouls.

Barry Greenstein and Shaun Deeb talk and teach Open Face Chinese:

Thank you, this was helpful

I have a question...

Is O.F Chinese normally a table stakes game or do you owe the points?

I saw some people playing this in Vegas this past weekend. How does the point scoring work (for the high value hands like straight flush?)

You get $x per point.

Assuming that a straight flush pays 15 points, if I make a full house (6 points) and you make a straight flush then I owe you 15 points less 6 for a total of 9 points.

If you win 2 out of 3 hands then I owe you 1 more point
&
if you win 3 out of 3 hands then I owe you 6 more points

This might sound completely crazy, but what do you guys think of a double deck 6-max game for OF Chinese where two of the same rank and suit cannot be in a hand or that row automatically loses; in other words, you have to make a valid single deck hand.

For instance, if the bottom ends up K99QK
then everyone automatically beats that hand.

Just a thought.

Or you could just call the extra K a brick in that it fills a space but does not add to the value of the hand.

I'll have to play test this insanity

can someone better then me at math pls tell me the odds of making this hand with out fouling.

villian has from top to bottom:

QQ5
J866
7722

the last card he played was the queen up top which seemed like a crazy gamble as unless he boats up he can't improve his middle as all his 2pr cards are higher then his bottom. to try and boat up and make 2pr in middle with only 2 cards left seemed insane to me but obv he went perfect perfect (tho due to the insane bug in the app I never even saw his final card it just went str8 to FL I never saw what he pulled on last card nor did it show the scoring for the hand. this is the 2nd time this has happened and they said they are working on fixing it, but needless to say its annoying).

as for dead cards all his sevens and twos were live and I believe the only blocker I had was an 8.

anyways if someone could tell me the odds of him completing that hand with two cards to go I'd appreciate it.

assuming he goes first (you have 11 cards and 1 blocker) about 12.5%

The OFC Calculator says:
(my dmb azz forgot to set the draws left last time! doh!)
Position 1: 9.96%
Position 2: 10.58%

What the ofc calculator?

It is an Android app that helps you calculate the probability of making a hand or a combination of hands in x position with x outs & x draws left.

Top bad i have iphone, thanx

thanks guys. pretty surprised its that high.

First to set HU I have

A 4 8 3 2

Is

4
A
8 3 2

The correct way to set?

I'd play it:
--
8
A234