/|\ ok just slap me

For a while it's been in my mind 9 lo ott pat behind 2 drawing is correct, which was a huge brain fart destroying my game. So I had navigated away from it. I guess it's a simple fix now to improve and return my game to good game again. It's surprising the difference this really made in my game. So I'm using this to start the thread below.

Name 3 leaks 1 to 3 you think can have the biggest effect on your game/a specific game. Give them an order of impact/influence. For the questions sake tilt, bluffing and ev need to be removed.

I thought patting a 9 behind two drawing on the turn was correct. Is it better to break 9s with good draws underneath, like 97432, for implied odds?

I can't think of 3 right now, but one leak for me was drawing 2 on the flop behind a pat hand. I could be wrong but I feel like giving up in those spots more often has improved my game.

are you looking for general answers?

1) BRM
2) overall health, life balance
3) loosing the will or ability to learn something new. being not openminded enough.

??profit

btw: the way I define "EV" for myself, every factr you could think of influates the EV

1) Failing to game and/or table select
2) Trying to outplay better players
3) Session length - too short happy to get it in marginally, too long more mistakes and missed opportunities

1. Not Study/learning enough
2. Not socializing enough
3. Consuming drugs

Works pretty well for me, though

poor bankroll management
not paying attention/being observant
drawing without being laid the correct price

As far as I can tell there really is only 1 serious leak...it's game selection......

SO I revisited this now a little late but really appreciate the feedback. My biggest leak would be playing tired which induces tilt beahviour. Thanks for all the feed back and sorry for the delay in a response. I agree with all the posts, and for all players they are some of the hardest to manage, including cafine or beer consumption as drugs. GG

1) Drugs/Alcohol
2) Game Selection
3) Continued Rigorous Learning from the RIGHT materials

Ott or OTR? OTR a pat 9 lo is 51% or something right against two players drawing, so what is it on the turn?

Even ahead it can't be too good unless very rough, small pot and you can fold it/bluff call often. But it's not a hand to be aggresive with correct.

2-7 triple draw sim, 100000 trials, 2 draws:
Dead cards: none

Hand 0: 9s 7s 5d 3s 2s: standing pat
Hand 1: 8d 7d 4s 2d --: 2nd draw: stand pat on 8, keep 6, str8s to break hi: none
Hand 2: 7h 4h 3h 2c --: 2nd draw: stand pat on 8, keep 68, str8s to break hi: none

Hand 0: 9 7 5 3 2: EV 28.4% - WIN/LOSE/TIE %: 28.4/71.6/0.0
Hand 1: 8 7 4 2 --: EV 24.1% - WIN/LOSE/TIE %: 23.4/75.2/1.3
Hand 2: 7 4 3 2 --: EV 47.5% - WIN/LOSE/TIE %: 46.8/51.9/1.3


2-7 triple draw sim, 100000 trials, 2 draws:
Dead cards: none

Hand 0: 7s 5d 3s 2s --: 2nd draw: stand pat on 8, keep 68, str8s to break hi: none
Hand 1: 8d 7d 4s 2d --: 2nd draw: stand pat on 8, keep 6, str8s to break hi: none
Hand 2: 7h 4h 3h 2c --: 2nd draw: stand pat on 8, keep 68, str8s to break hi: none

Hand 0: 7 5 3 2 --: EV 34.7% - WIN/LOSE/TIE %: 34.1/64.7/1.2
Hand 1: 8 7 4 2 --: EV 20.1% - WIN/LOSE/TIE %: 19.7/79.4/0.9
Hand 2: 7 4 3 2 --: EV 45.2% - WIN/LOSE/TIE %: 44.1/53.8/2.0


I think this answers the question, but is obviously a near worst-case scenario (best-case in 2nd hand). Someone please let me know if this is entered incorrectly.

How do I get my hands on the sim?

Also, I know it was losing (if it is only just winning OTR for pat vs two villains). But a commenter said he thought it was winnin OTT, maybe just an oversight of the OP content, I was questioning his meaning.

Good to see this software in action and how bad a pat 9 really is, if i understand it correctly.

Mind you, I'm not quite sure how to read or interprut the information of the sim properly, or what were parameters put in about?

Thanks Gus

How can I get the sim, or if it is free what is it called?
I think maybe once I had before but it was super difficult and lengthy to use. Sound about right?

This shows a pat 9 ott is better than breaking the 9 to draw on an 87? IS it right?

Hand 0: 9 7 5 3 2: EV 28.4% - WIN/LOSE/TIE %: 28.4/71.6/0.0
Hand 1: 8 7 4 2 --: EV 24.1% - WIN/LOSE/TIE %: 23.4/75.2/1.3


That is i interprut this as hand 1 pat 97532, hand 2 break 98742. No sure.

Against 2 villains?
Does it include amount of card they draw, or this is an always situation based on a 1 cd OTT and OTR from villain(S).

See I'm not reallys ure about how to read it properly.
Sorry to muddy the thread.

It's called Troutulator and it's available here for free: http://www.andyblackwood.com/converter.html


It isn't easy to use, I still have to read the instructions pretty much every time I use it, and I'm always unsure if I'm putting everything in correctly unless it's for a single draw (that's really easy).

I'll leave the rest alone because I actually think you're derailing your own thread

I'm confused, I always though of the draw action 'on the turn' being the 3rd draw, and that there is no such thing as patting or drawing 'on the river'. Am I the only one?

AFAIK
3 draws, OTF, OTT, OTR.

When I came first this is what I was explained as terminology to simplify the hands and make them easy to follow.

Flop, Turn, River. Draw and betting round is the same. You either are mentioning draws or bets, or both. The reference is easily understood.



@Gus, thanks for information and that does sound familiar from a few years back. I remeber it being too hard to use, but will check it out again.

100% I have had it, even remeber that homepage. "quiving with fear thinking about it, but courageous to learn it".


Post is so derailed isnt it. HAHAHA

Back on track:

:P

1) Wrong information.
2) Assumptions.
3) Wild betting and dreaming.