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 Draw and Other Poker Discussion of poker games not covered elsewhere (e.g. badugi, draw, triple-draw, pineapple)

08-03-2012, 10:57 PM   #16
veteran

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,260
Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

Quote:
 Originally Posted by JoeSixPutt Care to share some hints on how one might get started in constructing balanced range by mixing and matching things?

If you're roughly looking for a 50/50 mix of 3betting/calling with a particular 2 card draw, you could 3-bet/call based on its suit distribution.

Ways to arrange suits for a given 2cd draw that is 3-suited: 24
Ways to arrange suits for a given 2cd draw that is 2-suited: 36
Ways to arrange suits for a given 2cd draw that is single suited: 4

So 3-betting it when your 2cd draw consists of exactly 2 suits gives you a 3-bet %age of 36/64 = 56.25%.

Alternatively, you can 3-bet it when your hand looks pretty for "badeucey", this gives you a 3-bet %age of 24/64 = 37.5%.

And if you alternate these techniques on each 3-betting/call decision, that would give you a 3 bet %age of (56.25% + 37.5%)/2 = 46.875%.

 08-03-2012, 11:44 PM #17 veteran   Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,260 Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB I forgot to also consider pairs in this, fwiw. If you 3-bet 2cd draws that also contain a pair + 3-suited unpaired draws: (396/1176) + (780/1176)*(24/64) = 58.5%
08-04-2012, 02:43 PM   #18
grinder

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 417
Quote:
 Originally Posted by tringlomane If you're roughly looking for a 50/50 mix of 3betting/calling with a particular 2 card draw, you could 3-bet/call based on its suit distribution. Ways to arrange suits for a given 2cd draw that is 3-suited: 24 Ways to arrange suits for a given 2cd draw that is 2-suited: 36 Ways to arrange suits for a given 2cd draw that is single suited: 4 So 3-betting it when your 2cd draw consists of exactly 2 suits gives you a 3-bet %age of 36/64 = 56.25%. Alternatively, you can 3-bet it when your hand looks pretty for "badeucey", this gives you a 3-bet %age of 24/64 = 37.5%. And if you alternate these techniques on each 3-betting/call decision, that would give you a 3 bet %age of (56.25% + 37.5%)/2 = 46.875%.
Thanks for doing the work on this and figuring out an easy way to randomize a range. Suits is a great way to accomplish randomization, if that is one's goal.

I am not sure if randomizing with all individual hands would be necessarily better than 3 betting all 2 cards ( or calling all 2 cards). Randomizing by suits would certainly be best way to totally confuse opponent though. Profitability is a different matter.

The monotone suit occurence might be a good percentage to use to raise with worst playable hands and snow some and perhaps the same to just call with strong wheel draw?

I have no idea that 50% would even be the number of 2 card hands we would want to raise with even if balance had no importance at all. I think that percentage should be lower. I dont know.

I guess the bottom line what I've learned in this thread is that hu td is hard but that is a good thing.

08-04-2012, 04:27 PM   #19
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,260
Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

Quote:
 Originally Posted by JoeSixPutt I have no idea that 50% would even be the number of 2 card hands we would want to raise with even if balance had no importance at all. I think that percentage should be lower. I dont know.
Yeah, I dunno if 50% would be an appropriate ratio myself. If you would need to lower frequency, you can flat call if the lowest ranked card is of a particular suit (suits). As an example, you'd call 2c3h7s, but 3 bet things like 2h3d7s, 2d3c7s, and 2s3h7c.

Using suits isn't a bad idea to balance 3 betting/calling 2cd draws since suits rarely matter in this game (as long as you avoid flushes). Also in my quick addendum, I also point out how the numbers change if you are 3 betting pairs of your 2cd draw like 2447. Given a 2 cd draw, you'll have a paired card to go with it almost a third of the time. So 3 betting 2 cd draws with pairs only and calling all others is probably a reasonable frequency, and the hands themselves are slightly stronger, which is never a bad thing when 3-betting.

But like you say, I'm not totally convinced a mixed strategy of calling/3-betting 2cd draws is best. The amount of HU play I have is minimal. But I would suggest, if one uses a mixed strategy, to avoid 3 betting based on hand strength only, like always 3-betting 237 and always calling 368.

Also I wouldn't use mono suit to snow decent 2 cd draws though...I would save that for gutshot straight and flush draws like 8654 suited.

 08-04-2012, 05:16 PM #20 grinder   Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 417 I would prefer to raise 2x7 more often than only when paired but I agree that when paired these hands should absolutely be raised. Do you think this strategy would be reasonable (assuming an opponent typical amount of hands and capable of noticing imbalance)? Raise all 2x7 hands except 2x7 same suit and no pair. Same for good 2x8 hands. Raise with badugi and or pair hands that you would otherwise want to call with. Last edited by JoeSixPutt; 08-04-2012 at 05:22 PM.
 08-05-2012, 05:29 PM #21 old hand   Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,285 Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB there is a much easier way to find almost exactly 50% of your 2cd range tringlomane. (hint: you can use it to find 25/75/100% also)
08-05-2012, 07:10 PM   #22
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,260
Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Journeyman_1 there is a much easier way to find almost exactly 50% of your 2cd range tringlomane. (hint: you can use it to find 25/75/100% also)
haha, you're right...I'm well known for doing things the hard way. I'm also subconsciously craving to play badeucey.

 08-06-2012, 05:09 PM #23 old hand     Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,587 Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB yes if ur exhaling when u see ur draw snap 3bet it!!

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