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Old 08-03-2012, 02:57 AM   #1
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HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

Ive been playing more hu td lately and am wondering what are peoples thoughts are on this topic.

How do you guys deal with your 2 card draws to button open?

Is it best to be consistent and hide information by 3 betting all 2 card draws or is it fine to raise stronger hands and call with the weaker ones?

I feel like the range is so wide here that it might be worth it to give up some info in exchange for immediate best value but then again i hate to cut my range in half.

At what level do you think players are able to notice the incosistency in pf play and really punish you for it?

Thanks
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:50 AM   #2
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

Personally I just flat all my 2-card draws unless the button is super aggressive (and even then it might be best just to call with them). The thing is you're probably not ahead by much and you're out of position for the rest of the hand.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:02 AM   #3
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

I 3-bet 2235, 2335, 2445 and so on. A 3 card wheel with a wheel brick. All other 2 cards I, at least start off, calling. If button is super aggressive and also very stubborn, calling down drawing 2 on river for instance, I will start 3-betting slightly wider 2-card draws. Flat entire 2-card draw range is never bad IMO.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:12 AM   #4
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

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Originally Posted by Bjornar View Post
If button is super aggressive and also very stubborn, calling down drawing 2 on river for instance, I will start 3-betting slightly wider 2-card draws.
I do the opposite. If he's calling down too wide, just keep the pot small. Unless he specifically only does it in 3-bet pots, of course.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:30 AM   #5
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

Just realized you're talking about HU. Someone far more qualified than me will need to reply I'm afraid.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bjornar View Post
I 3-bet 2235, 2335, 2445 and so on. A 3 card wheel with a wheel brick. All other 2 cards I, at least start off, calling. If button is super aggressive and also very stubborn, calling down drawing 2 on river for instance, I will start 3-betting slightly wider 2-card draws. Flat entire 2-card draw range is never bad IMO.
Do you use this same strategy of 3 betting your very best 2 card draws in full ring games also? Or is there something unique about hu where one might not care so much about information hiding?

To others advocating always call with 2 cards, does it matter to you if villain is opening even with non deuce 3 cards?
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:44 AM   #7
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

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Originally Posted by JoeSixPutt View Post
Do you use this same strategy of 3 betting your very best 2 card draws in full ring games also? Or is there something unique about hu where one might not care so much about information hiding?

To others advocating always call with 2 cards, does it matter to you if villain is opening even with non deuce 3 cards?
I 100% flat 2-card draws in full ring. I play a lot of HU SNG and use the said strategy there.

HU you can open 3-card draws all the time. Worst I open is 75xyz on the button.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:57 AM   #8
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As a single hand wouldnt you like to 3 bet 237x in full ring to any open just for value? I thought the whole problem with this is that you narrow your range too much and moreover you remove these hands from cold calling range. I guess im just not understanding why this concept of consistency and info hiding shoulld change so much from hu or 3 handed to full ring.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:58 AM   #9
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

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Worst I open is 75xyz on the button.
Noob question (sorry to hijack thread): Is 82xyz a lot worse than 75xyz here? Especially HU? Wouldn't you open with it HU?
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:20 PM   #10
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No, 82 is much, much better than 75. 83, too. Maybe even 84 (even though it too can make straights, it makes them less often).
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:47 PM   #11
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

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Originally Posted by JoeSixPutt View Post
As a single hand wouldnt you like to 3 bet 237x in full ring to any open just for value? I thought the whole problem with this is that you narrow your range too much and moreover you remove these hands from cold calling range. I guess im just not understanding why this concept of consistency and info hiding shoulld change so much from hu or 3 handed to full ring.
237 simply doesn't have all that much value. What it has is implied odds, which you might lose if villain can put you on such a smooth draw when you 3bet. He will put in fewer bets, and also snowcatch less since you won't be snowing with a hand like that very often.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #12
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

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237 simply doesn't have all that much value. What it has is implied odds, which you might lose if villain can put you on such a smooth draw when you 3bet. He will put in fewer bets, and also snowcatch less since you won't be snowing with a hand like that very often.
Perfectly put IMO.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:34 PM   #13
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

ftr, there are ways to 3bet sometimes, but not always and be balanced. it doesnt have to be all or nothing if you dont mind thinking a little
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:36 PM   #14
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Re: HU TDL: 2 card draws from the BB

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Originally Posted by COCKBOAT View Post
237 simply doesn't have all that much value. What it has is implied odds, which you might lose if villain can put you on such a smooth draw when you 3bet. He will put in fewer bets, and also snowcatch less since you won't be snowing with a hand like that very often.
All so true!
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COCKBOAT View Post
237 simply doesn't have all that much value. What it has is implied odds, which you might lose if villain can put you on such a smooth draw when you 3bet. He will put in fewer bets, and also snowcatch less since you won't be snowing with a hand like that very often.
Surely you would prefer to 3 bet on the button with 22237 to a raise and 2 cold callers right? Like you say there are strategic implications in doing so, such as our hand becomes apparent as very smooth draw which could cost us big bets against observant opponents. That was my point, would't raising only the very best 2 cards from bb in hu make us easy to play against?

Jorneyman, thats what I was thinking as an option; just call with a couple best hands and raise a couple very worst playable hands but then again I am not sure what is gained with this. You are just putting extra money in with bad hands and losing money by just calling with best hands and still the huge bulk of your range is going to consist of those usual weak hands if call, strong hands if raise. Care to share some hints on how one might get started in constructing balanced range by mixing and matching things?
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