where the hell do they have a regular 20/40 FL omaha hi game?

The Great Blue Heron casino just north of Toronto (Ontario, Canada). Game runs every day, on weekends 2 full tables of 20/40 FLOhi is quite common!

One can only hope it spreads to other casino's where limit holdem is currently dominating

Roswell

Wow, great post oRoswell!

I used to play FLO back when Pacific Poker didn't have PLO available. Great game because people HAVE to see a flop, more so than O8. Every table was like you described in Table A, and I definitely agree with your reasoning on those scenarios. I don't have enough experience on that juicy Table B though.

I got into FLOhi the same way, my friend told me that "They have omaha!" at my local casino. I went excitedly to play assuming it was PLO, only to find it was fixed limit (wtf??? fixed limit??). I quickly decided that it should play just like a super loose game of fixed limit holdem so i sat planning to employ my strategy for playing that I woudl use in a crazy no-fold'em hold'em game, and luckily ran good in my first few sessions. After those first few sessions I began to think about the game more seriously and to come up with a specific strategy for Fixed Limit Omaha (especially super juicy games). Juicy Game B as I described it above seems to run every weekend at my local casino.

Although I have by no means enough data yet to show consistent winnings, I think I'm on the right track (I've been playing for 5 months now, as of this weekend I now have 462 hours played at 20/40 FLO).

In my opinion, the more variance a game has, the greater room for potential profit there will be long term. So the question is, what is a reasonable number of hours/hands played before a consistent winrate can be determined for a game with enourmous variance like fixed limit omaha hi?

The estimate I came up with was about 4x what it would be for a similar limit in limit holdem. I've seen numbers ranging from 500 to 2000 hours sample size for holdem before considering skill to be the dominant factor over variance. So based on my gorilla math above, that would be 2000 to 8000 hours of FLO, which would take me 18 - 24 months of playing to achieve.

What do you guys think?

BTW, just to get everyones lips wet a little, here's a super juicy hand of 20/40 FLO at "Juicy Table B" from this weekends session. Hands like this happen multiple times in a typical session (they are not common but by no means is this a rare occurrence)

I'm on the button and get the super sexy hand of Ac Ah Qc Qh. 5 players limp by the time the action gets to me (very typical), I raise, the sb calls, and the BB re-raises. All 5 limpers call the 3rd bet and when it gets back to me I cap the action (all 7 players call). We see a flop 8 way, capped. (32 small bets in the pot).

Flop is: Jh 7h 5c

A great flop for my hand, in theory 9 nut flush outs, and 4 overcard set draws neither of which make anyone a straight. Additionally I have a backdoor heart flush draw which is the equivalent of about 2 outs, and a backdoor broadway draw, which is the equivalent of about 1 out. So my hand has anywhere from 4 to 17 outs to improve, I have probably minimum 20% and perhaps 35% equity in an 8 way pot.

sb checks, bb bets, everyone calls, I raise, bb re-raises, a few people fold and I cap. We see the turn 5 way, capped. With the dead money from the folders, there is about 60 small bets in the pot.

The Turn is Jc, making the board: Jh 7h 5c Jc

This is a pretty good card for me, giving me 2 nut flush draws if no one made a full house, and if somone did have 2 pair or a set and filled up, I still have 4 outs with my overpairs to what is now nut boat draws. I decide that with my range of 4 to 22 outs against a field of 5 players that my hand is good enough for a raise for sure, and if I'm drawing to my worst case 4 outs, then it's not that big of a mistake to raise, as I'd get re-raised and still be getting the right price to draw to my 4 overpair boat draw outs.

BB checks, one player bets, I raise, bb and 2 others now just call. 4 of us see the river with what is now 38 big bets in the pot.

The river is 3h, making board: Jh 7h 5c Jc 3h.

Everyone checks to me. After some deliberation I conclude I'm probably best a decent amount of the time with my nut heart flush, so I bet. BB folds (he said later he had KK99), and the remaining 2 players call. Total pot 41 big bets.

Player one tables trip jacks AJxx,was looking to catch one of his danglers to make a boat, player 2 tables the nut straight 64xx that he made on the river, and I take it down with my nut flush. +$1240.

I hope you guys enjoyed reading that hand as much as I enjoyed playing it, and if there is anyone else out there that plays live FLO, please chime in, post some cool hands, etc, I'd like to hear from the tiny crowd out there that is somehow playing this amazing game of FLO!

1) UTG at full 10-player table: AKKT

Limp or raise, depending on table dynamics. If you want a big pot, raise. Generally speaking, in a good limit omaha game, there is no limiting of the field btf. If people want to play, they play.

2) UTG+1 at full table, one limper in: 4J9A

Limp. Not a strong hand.

3) UTG+2 at full table, one limper in: AK3Q

Ok for a limp.

4) MP1 at 9-player table, three limpers in: 7KK7

Good fit-or-fold hand against a player you know to have AAxx.

5) CO at 8-player table, three limpers in: Q543

Only playable in games where you are the only one playing little cards, and even then, marginal. Practice throwing this away.

6) BTN at 9-player table, three limpers in: 2AK9

Crappy hand. Raise/fold.

7) UTG at 8-player table: K39A

You can toss it unless you expect a family pot for one bet.

8) CO at 7-player table, UTG limp, HJ raised: QJ9A

You don't tell us about the HJ, but play this one and try to flop a T and a pair, a K and a pair or maybe 2pr. Marginal at best, but playable if you are a CO-defender.

9) BB with six limpers (including SB) in: Q3AA

If you have a big bankroll, you can pop it, but it is once again a matter of table dynamics as to whether I want a bigger pot when out of position.

...

In limit, I usually base my raise decisions on position rather than holdings: If people respect my raises and fold, I am either on fire and have all the chips, or am in a bad game; In games where there are multiple players on the river I raise the first two streets if I think it will allow me to show down a marginal hand cheaply, but other than that I am waiting for big hands in big situations.

Use the search function. There have been some good limit omaha threads in this forum.

thanks for the post roswell. Someone here pointed me to this thread. I've been playing 3/6/12 FLOhi at my local casino and was looking for some starting hand requirements, and you pretty much affirmed what i was thinking.

Btw, this casino is usually table B...7+ ppl seeing flop with no one folding on the flop

I played 2 dqays ago and managed to flop quads twice in a 2 hours session

Bump to keep it from archiving

I wonder if oRoswell is still playing this game...and if he'd be kind enough to share his bb/hr and whether he still thinks this game is beatable