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Draw and Other Poker Discussion of poker games not covered elsewhere (e.g. badugi, draw, triple-draw, pineapple)

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Old 03-05-2008, 05:21 AM   #1
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
FAQ - Please read this.

FAQ version 2.3. - Buzz 3-3-08

Welcome to the "Other Poker" forum. This FAQ and guidelines is a revision of the original written by Tapirboy, revised by Tom Bayes, and again revised by Buzz and Phat Mack.

Here's a link to 2+2's terms and conditions:

Note there are special forums for
• Omaha-hi/low split (Omaha-8 forum),
• Omaha-high-only (Omaha-high forum),
• Razz (stud forum),
• Stud-8 (stud forum),
• Stud (stud forum),
• Texas hold 'em (various forums), and
• Wild card games (Home Games forum).

This forum, in addition to being the forum for various draw games is a catch-all forum for various poker games not covered in other forums.

Games specifically covered on this forum include:

• Badugi,
• Chinese Poker,
• Chowaha,
• Crazy Pineapple,
• Draw: 5 card draw, high only
• Draw: 5 card draw, high, A-7 (reduced deck)
• Lowball draw: A-5, single draw,
• Lowball draw: A-5, triple draw,
• Lowball draw: 2-7, single draw,
• Lowball draw: 2-7, triple draw,
• Open face Chinese
• Pineapple,
• Watermelon, and
• any other poker game that isn't better discussed on another forum.

If you're not sure whether you should post here or somewhere else, go ahead and post here and we'll move the discussion to another 2+2 forum if it doesn't belong here.

Games covered elsewhere:

• Discussions of non-casino variants such as Baseball and Follow the Queen belong in Home Poker.
• Wild card game discussions are found in Home Poker.
• Omaha high is discussed in either of two Omaha-high forums, high stakes or small stakes.
• Omaha-8 (high/low split Omaha) is discussed in the Omaha-8 forum
• Razz is discussed in the stud forum. stud forum.

Two Plus Two Interactive, LLC Disclaimer Regarding “Prop Bet,” “Challenge,” and “Wager” Forum Posts.

Two Plus Two encourages the candid and open exchange of information and communications between its members. The sheer size and scope of our forums - and the rapid distribution of information originating from thousands of different sources every day - limits our ability to monitor, approve, delete, edit, censor, or screen certain posts that may be offensive or may contain information relating to harmful or illegal activity.

As noted in our terms and conditions, Two Plus Two is not legally responsible for the content of any post, or the accuracy of any information discussed or uploaded onto the Forums by the members. Opinions, advice, discussions, and all other information expressed by the members are those of the members themselves, and not necessarily shared by Two Plus Two.

This includes posts or threads relating to contests, tournaments, “prop bets,” challenges, and wagers between Forum members. Two Plus Two does not, and will not, “book” any bets or wagers between Forum members. Further, Two Plus Two takes no official part in any bets, wagers, related posts, or the discussion of any such transactions between Forum members.

Two Plus Two makes no guarantees or certifications whatsoever that any bets, wagers, or transactions discussed on the Forums are legal, safe, accurate, or sanctioned by Two Plus Two in any way. You rely on such information at your own risk. As such, Two Plus Two will not be liable for the ultimate legality of such transactions nor will Two Plus Two be held responsible for any potential loss or harm to its members as a result of such transactions.

From the 2+2 website:

- Participants shall not post any material likely to cause offense, that is protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right - without the express permission of the owner of such copyright - or that contains personal phone numbers or addresses.
- Participants may not use the Forums to post or transmit advertisements or commercial solicitations of any kind.
- The appropriate Forum Moderator has the right to edit, censor, delete or otherwise modify any posted message.

Fund transfers:
All transfer requests are to be posted in the transfers thread:
Person to person transfers. [OP is a "MUST read."]

Staking requests:
These go in the Staking sub-forum of the Marketplace forum.

Posting suggestions:

The main thing is please be courteous to other posters on this forum. We're all here to have a little fun while discussing some non-main******** variation of poker.

Hand Convertors
Most hand posts on this forum are done with raw hand histories.

DeucesCracked has a hand converter here:

vbnautilus has a 2-7 Triple Draw and Single converter here:
and a Badugi Hand converter here:

Here's another hand converter for 2-7-tripledraw:

We appreciate their hard work and encourage the use of converters when posting triple draw hand histories. If anyone wants to work on a converter for other games, your work will be much appreciated. UB hand histories may be captured via GameTime+.

Please post hands and hand histories directly into posts on this forum rather than providing URLs to other sites.

links to blogs on other sites

Please don't post links to your own personal site or other non 2+2 sites. Instead, please post what you have to say directly into a post on this forum. Thanks.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q. All these games are very confusing. Where can I read the rules?

Unfortunately the rules may differ from one locality to another.

Some games have more or less standard rules from one place to another, but it's generally best to find the rules for each particular location the game is spread.

Q) How do you read the low?
• Step 1. In any high/low game where neither player has a pair, read from the highest card down. In other words, if your five cards are
then arrange them in reverse order and read: 87432.
And if your opponent's cards are
then arrange them in reverse order and read: 86543.
• Step 2. Compare the two numbers. 86543 is a lower number than 87432. Therefore your opponent has a better low hand.

If one player has a pair, then the hand without the pair wins. If both players have a pair, then the player with the lower pair wins.

In some low games, aces are the lowest card. In other low games, aces are the highest card. In certain high/low games, aces can be either high or low. In other high/low games, aces can only be counted as high cards. When aces can be counted as low, read the ace as "1" (or "one") Get it straight before you play how aces will be counted.

In some low games flushes and/or straights count as high hands. In other low games, flushes and/or straights do not matter. For example, in ace to five lowball, 5432A is read as 54321 and is the best possible low hand. But in deuce to seven lowball, 5432A would be read as A5432, with the ace counting as a higher card than a king. As further examples, in some low games,
• 8,5,4,3,2, counts as a flush while in other low games is 85432.
• 6,5,4,3,2, counts as a straight while in other low games straights don't matter for low and then hand is simply read as "65432."
Get it straight before you play how flushes and straights will be counted.

In some high/low games,
A,2,3,4,5, counts as a "straight flush wheel" and may win both high and low. (Winning high as a straight flush) and winning or tying low as a wheel or bicycle, 54321). Get it straight before you play how aces, flushes, straights, and straight flushes will be counted.

Where eight or better is the qualifier, you must have a five-card hand with all five different ranks eight or below.

Q. Where can I find on-line descriptions of some of these games?

• Doyle’s Room:
• PokerRoom:
• Stars: badugi, 2-7 Triple Draw, 2-7 Single Draw (KCL)
• Simba:
• 24hPoker: Sökö,Telesina,Americana
• Wikipedia. Type the name of the game in the search box for Google, perhaps also with the word poker. For example to find out about Crazy Pineapple, type
"crazy pineapple poker" (without the quotes) in the google search box. Then look down the list, probably just a few entries, to find the free Wikipedia reference.

Q. Where can I play these games on-line?

There are many online rooms, both major and minor, that spread “Other Poker” games. Following is a list. If you know of another on-line site currently offering any of these games, please notify us by posting directly on this forum.

• Game Finder

• B2B Network:
Pot Limit Draw cash games, SNGs, and MTTs
2-7 Triple Draw cash games & MTTs
PL Sökö cash games & tournaments
PL Telesina and Americana cash games

• carbonpoker:
badugi and other games

• Full Tilt:
HORSE cash games, SNGs, MTTs
HOSE cash games
HA (half PLHE/half PLO) cash games
Full Tilt also has draw games (a-5 triple, 2-7 triple, 2-7 single, badugi, 10-game mix).

• Ongame Network:
Limit and PL Draw High cash games
Pot Limit Draw High SNGs and MTTs

• Open face Chinese:
apps and online play

rules etc.

• Paradise Poker:
Limit Draw High cash games

• Planet Poker:
Limit Draw High cash games, SNGs, and MTTs
Pot Limit Draw High cash games
$pike reports Planet Poker shut down its cash games about 10 months ago (because of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act) and has replaced them with a play-chip/subscription concept.

Rumored to be adding several "other games" including Draw High, Triple Draw, and Badugi.

• PokerStars:
2-7 Triple Draw cash games (Limit, PL, NL) and MTTs (Limit)
2-7 Single Draw (KCL)
Draw High cash games (Limit, PL, NL) and MTTs (PL)
HORSE cash games, SNGs, MTTs
HOSE cash games and SNGs.

• Simba:

• Tiger
Big 2, Chinese Poker, 3-card guts.
Play money only for Americans, since UIGEA.

• Tribeca Network:
Limit and Half-Pot Limit Badugi cash games

Q. Can I get rakeback or signup deals for those sites?

Usually. Ask each site directly.

Q. What exactly is meant by the term "snow"?

"Snowing" is bluffing with the added aspect of standing pat.

For example, Hero could draw, (1) miss, (2) bet anyway, and (3) stand pat on the next draw. If Hero drew, all three elements have to be present for the maneuver to be considered a "snow."

Or Hero could snow by (1) not drawing and (2) betting a poor (possibly terrible) hand. If Hero didn't draw, both elements would have to be present for the maneuver to be considered a "snow."

Q. Where can I play these games live?

We'd generally like to know that, too. In particular, please make a thread if you play a mixed game in a casino for low to medium stakes.

Q. What books are there for these games?

See the 2+2 books and publications forum for information about books discussing these games.

Q. What web resources are there for these games?

• Type the name of the game in the search box for Google, perhaps also with the word poker. For example to find out about Crazy Pineapple, type
"crazy pineapple poker" (without the quotes) in the google search box. Then look down the list, probably just a few entries, to find the free Wikipedia reference, or some other reference.

• A-7 draw:
a discussion thread in this forum

• Badugi:
A simulator (Troutulator):
Troutulator v0.5
An article in wikipedia:
An article by Chris Fargis
Badugi Hand converter:

Explanation for first listed Badugi Hand converter: has an odds chart and some strategy

• Big 2:
A description put together by John McLeod:
Big 2

• Chinese Poker:
Don Smolen's Chinese Poker Site

• Crazy pineapple

• 2-7 single draw lowball
Handy Odds Calculator

• Simba:

• Chowaha:
Wolf's Chowaha page.
Chowaha Hand Rankings:

• Crazy Pineapple:
Crazy Pineapple for Advanced Players by Jerrod Ankenman

• Draw High:
Michael Wiesenberg articles:

• Triple Draw Lowball:
Michael Wiesenberg articles:
Hand converter for 2-7-tripledraw:

Starting hands:

An article by Howard Lederer
Another article by Howard Lederer
An article by Michael Wiesenberg
An article by Chris Fargis
A free simulation site:
A post by Mark Gritter regarding hand odds for triple draw:

Q. Where can I find information about on-line note taking?
Here's a link to a thread discussing note taking:
Otherwise try googling "on line poker notes" or something of the sort.

Mike Caro odds tables:

Suggestions regarding this FAQ would be deeply appreciated. Please send them as a private message to Buzz, a moderator of this forum.

Last edited by Buzz; 03-06-2016 at 03:14 AM. Reason: improve
Buzz is offline  

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