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draw rule question; ripped card.

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07-14-2017 , 01:34 AM

prototypepariah

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Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,151

Curious what others think/rule.

First draw guy pitches a ripped card. If there is a re shuffle does card go back in?

I'll say what happenend later.

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07-14-2017 , 02:53 AM

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

Might want to ask in live casino poker where people typically ask live rulings questions. I know they have some mixed game dealers in that subforum. Could try tweeting Matt Savage. He usually has an answer for everything.

I have never played draw live in a casino but I doubt a marked card would get returned to play. If there were a reshuffle I'd probably show the card not in the deck so everyone knows what card it is that's dead If the person who initially discarded it is still in the hand.

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07-14-2017 , 03:10 AM

leavesofliberty

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Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

Diclaimer: not an expert.

My thoughts are that it's pitched so it's his, it's then exposed in the process of dealing, so it's flipped up, everything normal.

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07-14-2017 , 08:39 AM

chillrob

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No idea if there is a rule for this, but I think he shouldn't be allowed to throw the card for a draw. If it was ripped when he got it, he should have said something immediately for a misdeal or replaced card, and if he ripped it himself, we can't allow him to keep a paired 2 or whatever out of the reshuffle. He can only show down the ripped card or fold.

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07-14-2017 , 08:46 AM

leavesofliberty

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Thought the dealer pitched it. Not use to draw. Agree with chillrob.

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07-14-2017 , 09:28 AM

OtherMoachist

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Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 54

It 100% cannot go back into play. Replace a burn with the ripped card and replace the deck after the hand. If reshuffled, leave ripped card out for burn and expose it for everyone.

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07-14-2017 , 09:36 AM

leavesofliberty

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I am just confused. Of course he can draw a card. And no the damaged card does not go back in. For some reason I thought the player was angling after receiving a bad card.

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07-14-2017 , 11:55 AM

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

I've never heard of a requirement for a player to identify a marked or damaged card mid-hand. Afaik the only requirement is that they identify it post hand, either as their folding or at showdown if they get there (in the case of a draw game, I suppose I'd identify when pitching it).

Saying a player can't discard a marked card seems very punative. Saying they should have identified it as marked as soon as they got it requires that they notice it as such. It's possible they don't notice until it's time to draw.

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07-14-2017 , 02:21 PM

chillrob

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To me "ripped" is a lot different than "marked" and is closer to receiving the wrong number of cards. When someone receives the wrong number of cards we require him to say something right away, even though people sometimes don't notice until it is too late and then have a dead hand. I don't even want to kill this guy's hand, just not let him draw one. Any other ruling gives an incentive to tear a card on purpose.

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07-14-2017 , 02:26 PM

#10

prototypepariah

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Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,151

The answer was, if reshuffle it would be burn card, but if player wasn't in hand it would go back into play. Which seemed a little nuts but Ican see reasoning. (JUST cause it was pitched doesn't make it a picture card, could just be paired baby which should make it back in)

Player not angling, lots of cards get ripped in shuffle here. Definitely not a situation where it was to late to speak up. In lhe or other game you keep card for hand, no reason to be forced to expose it pre draw.

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07-14-2017 , 02:32 PM

#11

chillrob

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Lots of cards get ripped in a shuffle? What kind of crappy cards are you using? I only ever remember seeing a non-deliberately ripped card (in a casino) maybe twice in my life.

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07-14-2017 , 05:43 PM

#12

SetofJacks

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,378

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

How does ripping a card before discarding it give an advantage vs. just discarding it without ripping it first?

I think you're thinking that he's getting a replacement card, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about discarding it for a normal draw in a draw game.

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07-14-2017 , 08:04 PM

#13

prototypepariah

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Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,151

Yes discard is when rip was discovered

And borgata uses kem cards lunchbox/rob. They've been getting trashed in shufflers.

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07-15-2017 , 01:29 AM

#14

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SetofJacks

No, I'm thinking of the draw.

Imagine you were playing 2-7 triple draw, in a hand with several plyers where it looked like a reshuffle would be necessary. On the original deal you were dealt a pair of deuces. You keep one and tear the other, so now no one else can get that deuce, making it harder for them to make a good hand.

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