I recently started playing Badugi and just wondered if the numbers on sites like pokerstars have been growing?

Has anyone got a badugi graph to post I would love to see and also what do you think are sustainable winrates for different levels? I read 1-6BB/100 is this true?

I don't know if it's growing, but its action has stayed pretty consistent since they added it--there are usually a number of .25/.50 tables and often a couple tables at 1/2 or 2/4. Right now (10 AM US EST) there is a 5/10 game going.

Rather than posting an ugly Excel graph, I'll say that 4-5BB/100 is probably doable at levels 1/2 and below, assuming the game doesn't dry out. I don't have nearly enough hands to claim this with any certainty (about 4K at each level) since the variance is high. I find 2/4 to be a big step up from 1/2 for some reason, and I can't speak to higher games.

I started playing badugi back around October or so of last year when 'Stars was testing the software for badugi. Real money games got started around November of last year, with only $.50/$1 to start and then a week or so later, they added $1/$2 and $2/$4. Took them about a month at least before anything higher than $3/$6 or so (could be wrong on exact details).

I played almost exclusively badugi at this time, for about 3-4 months or so. Probably racked up over 10K hands, not quite sure on how many exactly. The game was rarely seen in the U.S. and Europe and I found it quite interesting. Eventually figured the game out and was able to build a roll from playing mainly $.50/$1 and $1/$2. Players were really bad at first, since there is very few articles done on badugi and many were figuring the game out as well. Got burned out from it after a while and it lost some of it's quirky appeal that had hooked me for so long.

So, back to your post. I still do play occasionally, and I usually check out the badugi section quite often when playing. It appears that the $.25/$.50 and $.50/$1 are usually quite active (6 tables of $.25/$.50 running right now), which might be a good sign for the growth of the game. The middle limits, say from $1/$2 to $5/$10 can be hit or miss. Sometimes you can find some juicy tables, but it is usually concentrated at the $1/$2 and $2/$4 limits. Usually only 1-5 or so tables running at most times at these limits. $10/$20 and up is real spotty, but you can occasionally find a $100/$200, $200/$400 or even a $400/$800 table(s) going. $1/$2 and up (I don't play $.25/$.50 or $.50/$1) will usually have a good amount of regs and it seems the fish have dried up for the most part. I remember last year playing against guys who would cap every street and pat the whole way and show down full houses, straights, flushes, etc (they eventually figured out the error of their ways, but one guy tried showing down a four-flush and lost, so next hand he shows down a three-flush and loses, etc.). It was almost a daily occurance at one stretch. Lot less of that going on now as well.

Jacquliene (Jean-Robert Bellande) plays badugi almost every day it seems. Almost always see him waiting at a $200/$400 or $100/$200 table, looking for action. Also seen Fossilman play, Gavin Griffin, Barry Greenstein, Alex Kravchenko and Katja Thater as well.

Good luck at the badugi tables, maybe I will play against you some day. One tip I have learned from thousands of hands of badugi played is that the South Koreans are CRAZY. If you see a player from Seoul at your table, get ready for a wild ride. They apply a lot of pressure and often try to get players to break marginal badugis. I find it tough knowing where I am at at times against these guys, but have played enough to know most of their tricks.

+1 to this. There was one Seoul player a few months who I first played with at 1/2 who had maybe a 60-70% VPIP, capping randomly, snowing constantly, just being absolutely nuts and spewing all their money (most of them are not crazy and awful like this). Imagine my surprise when I later see this player playing 5/10, 10/20, and then finishing 6th or so in the wcoop badugi event? I don't know what they put in the water in South Korea.

Thanks guys, hopefully I will play you one day.

Its really interesting to learn a card game from the start once again. I have been playing 0.25/0.5 limit and is it standard at these limits to be folding a 9 high badugi to a raise on the 3rd street when I have drew 1 card and stood pat. I think if I had stood pat from the start and got raised on the last street I should call a 9 high badugi generally as I could have a fair amount of trash badugi's and therefore they might raise a Ten high badugi for value etc.

Im wondering If im being nitty by folding bad 9 high badugi's to the avg player at these limits. I have seen people just call a bet on the last street with 7 high and I dont get raised by that much, everyones nitty.... pretty much.

Could you tell me my logic is fine or correct me where neccessary plz! Im just generalising which is bad but if you could generalize it that would be awesome.I watch hands go to showdown but I could be being results orientated etc.

Also I hate the situation of being OOP where I have a awful badugi.. I feel like I need to check and then fold to a bet. But the odds are sometimes tempting after I check and they bet. I dont want to be exploited lol but i still cant fold as often as I would like too haha

Also If i have A28r 9 and EP raises someone calls I call. Stand Pat, 1 draw I draw to A23r 8 should I 3-bet because I can get EP to break a badugi often?

Hmm its a interesting game, any advice is welcome thx

Focus on the single opponents when making decisions about breaking what you feel is marginal. Of course often you will miss enough reads and so you can't "rely" on what might the avg player do. So in general there is nothing wrong with paying for information, esp with chance of win vs unknown. There are many reasons people raise, still you can figure out who plays straight forward or at which stakes this is most frequently the case.

A lot of spots are very close, so be careful with adjusting too fast. However, as you get into tableflow and what players do, you will find yourself often correct breaking or folding and saving a lot of bets.

One really needs good assumptions. I ask same questions you do. Was dealt a J86A UTG today, got six callers... defenitely breaked, made an 862A and got raised by unknown, yeah so i switched to c/c and was beaten by a 6. Don't even know if it was at the border line to bet call break (fold), maybe that, maybe obvious not. Seen some guys raising any not paint badugi, seen bluffsstoppers, seen purebluffs and a lot of value of course.

Nobody really asked but the tournaments seem to be having fewer runners than they did a few months ago.

i dont know about the 2 dollars, but the PL 10 and 20 $ never seem to run, and when they do they get at most 8 players, but ive played them 3 and 4 handed also (and then 3 players get payed so that really sucks),

they really need to introduce some extra mid-stakes games like 20/40 or 60/120 as there is virtually no action between 10/20 and 100/200 (though perhaps stars like it like that for the time being?). Also, a $200 weekend tourney would be fun! Email them folks and perhaps it will happen eventually...

I have mentioned a $200 weekly badugi tournament back when the badugi cash tables had all been finalized in a thread. I can't see it getting less players than, say, the PL 5-Card Draw weekly, which drew 24 runners on Saturday and averages around 20 or so. Same w/ the Stud Hi weekly, drew only 24 on Saturday. If they had one for badugi, and ran some $39 sng satellites, it would get more than 20 some entrants. I mean, the high stakes badugi tables are fairly active at times lately(omg, Chino Rheem is playing $400/$800 badugi against Wrasse and Romashka55. I wish I had a couple hundred grand so I could take Chino's money. If he plays badugi at all like he does tripe draw 2-7, then he should be more reliable than an ATM).

But yeah, I don't really see them adding a badugi weekly because the MTT's get hardly any runners, but that is due to bad advertising and bad structures. Slap a guarantee on a tournament, and people will start flocking, doesn't matter what game it is.

im watching him now, hes horrible!!!

LOL, isn't he though? I played him at $15/$30 2-7 triple draw once because I saw him dumping money around left and right. I took couple hundred off him and then he left. Couple days later I saw him again but variance was kicking my ass. That is the only thing about playing against aggro-tards like him is the variance can make for one wild ride.

OMG, he's still there, LOL! When I first posted about him playing, about an hour ago, it was down to heads-up cause Wrasse left. Now they are 6-handed and Nick Schulman (TheTakeover) is playing as well. This could be epic. Now come on 'Stars, how could you not add a weekly $215 badugi tourney, all the big names will play it!!

Way to go Chino!!

PokerStars Game #34781865885: Badugi Limit ($400/$800 USD) - 2009/11/01 10:35:17 ET
Table 'Palatia III' 8-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Wrasse ($13162 in chips)
Seat 2: Amke ($35975 in chips)
Seat 3: OCgambler ($19194 in chips)
Seat 6: TheTakeover ($47955 in chips)
Seat 7: romashka55 ($11173 in chips)
Seat 8: Chino23 ($7772 in chips)
Wrasse: posts small blind $200
Amke: posts big blind $400
*** DEALING HANDS ***
OCgambler: folds
TheTakeover: raises $400 to $800
romashka55: folds
Chino23: raises $400 to $1200
Wrasse: folds
Amke: folds
TheTakeover: calls $400
*** FIRST DRAW ***
TheTakeover: discards 1 card
Chino23: stands pat
TheTakeover: checks
Chino23: bets $400
TheTakeover: calls $400
*** SECOND DRAW ***
TheTakeover: discards 1 card
Chino23: stands pat
TheTakeover: checks
Chino23: bets $800
TheTakeover: calls $800
*** THIRD DRAW ***
TheTakeover: stands pat
Chino23: discards 3 cards
TheTakeover: bets $800
Chino23: folds
Uncalled bet ($800) returned to TheTakeover
TheTakeover collected $5397 from pot
TheTakeover: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5400 | Rake $3
Seat 1: Wrasse (small blind) folded before the Draw
Seat 2: Amke (big blind) folded before the Draw
Seat 3: OCgambler folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Seat 6: TheTakeover collected ($5397)
Seat 7: romashka55 folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Chino23 (button) folded after the 3rd Draw

Does anyone know how to spell exploitable? C-H-I-N-O, LOL!!!!

hahahaha! i saw him call down all three draws when he was squeezed in between two pats who made him pay 3 bet each draw, and he drew 2-2-1

Verrrrryy niiiicee. Glad to see my suspicions about his badugi play are true! Only wish I had the roll to sit down at the high stakes he plays at. Occasionally I will see him play some $15/$30 or whatever, but it sucks because he has blocked himself from the find a player function. Thought he was a Pokerstars pro or a friend of Pokerstars, guess not though, cause you actually have to find a player and not find a pokerstars player for him.