Mid-stakes home game, ~15 game mix.

Badeucey, Hero opens 247r in cutoff, V1 calls from the button, V2 calls from BB.

Reads:
V1 is fairly new to this game but lives in Vegas part of the year and is a regular at the mixed game at Bellagio. Very solid, good starting hand selection.

V2 is bad, but he’s not relevant here.

1st Draw:
Hero draws 3 and 9, the 3 makes a 7432 badugi. V1 draws 2, V2 draws 3.

V2 checks, hero bets, V1 and V2 call.

2nd Draw:
Hero pats? I have a great badugi and a medium-strength low, 12 cards that improve my low.
V1 draws 2, V2 draws 2.

V2 checks, hero bets, V1 raises! V2 folds.

Hero?

Seems to me there are several options:

1-Call and draw 1.
2-Call and pat.
3-Raise and draw 1 (!)
4-Raise and pat.

Choices 3 and 4 of course depend on V1 responds to the raise. FWIW, the decision I made at game speed and the one I made while writing this up were not the same.

I don't think OP ever announced himself as Pat. Draw went 3/2/2 and he improved enough to where he was thinking about it.

Ok, the draw went 3/2/2. So that means the button guy might raise with some improvement but not necessarily a bonecrusher

12 cards to make a better low, but 15 to make the same low or better which is the more relevant number. Included in this are two super duper scoop cards.

I'm leaning towards a raise and draw 1 here. I think he would raise you with any 8 badugi or better and maybe a strong 3 badugi with a good low draw. Therefore I still like my badugi, and I like my chances of improving the low. Can someone help out with the chances on improving or equaling the low? 15 cards twice >50% right?

Weather he stayed pat or not, my line doesn't change. If OP had a six Badugi, I'm likely to reraise/stay pat, but, when you're OOP and youre contemplating between staying pat or drawing a card, keep in mind that you're going to be doing so minus any information AND no chance to reconsider on the next draw...cause they'll be no 'next draw.'

If you think that it's possible for him to raise w/an 8 Badugi, then you should NEVER break your nine w/one card to go. Let him draw and try to outdraw you..and he'll have to get super lucky to outdraw you on both!

And, I would be shocked to see a player like he described to raise a pat hand(which was three way action at that point) w/a strong tri and a low *draw*. Very bad.

Maybe I need a little help here but what are my odds of getting the same or better low with 15 cards over two draws? And he could have an 8 badugi with an 8 low. Or maybe something like 235(86)

Perhaps he had 23(7) and that's why he just flat called. He picked up a 4 to make a 234(7). I'd raise all day 24/7 365 with that. I might even put down my scotch to do it. I see no reason to gift the BB and let him in cheap.

There are two draws to go if I read the action correctly.

OP was raised after the second draw, thus there is only one round left, not two.

And, of all the possible hands you're giving villain 1, they still result in a chop unless you break the nine and go for the scoop(obv he's never breaking an 8/8 or even a strong tri(235)and a five card eight, but, you're putting yourself in a sticky spot when villain has the better Badugi and draws a card, because, w/one draw to go, you're a huge favorite with a nine, thus by breaking, you significantly decrease your chances to chop, and at that point, your best scenario(the safest scenario) is to stay pat.

Let's give a different situation (ie) when villain raises us with an 8 Badugi and a low *draw*(which is not unlikely given that it went: 3/2/2 )---would you rather hold onto the 9 or toss it and draw? Obv you wouldn't want to get rid of it. Correct?

The big blind is a non factor because we already have the information of him folding to the raise after the second draw, but, even if he called, he's more likely to pad the pot opposed to outdrawing you, and, in what could be headed as a chop pot, if there's no additional outside money coming in, then your net profits are diddly squat. Also, we don't know if either one of our hands is better than villain 1's, so, what's your reason for raising villain 2 out of the pot?

My apologies, I read the action wrong so basically ignore the stuff I posted.

Maybe I got confused by the "Hero pats?" part. So I assume Hero did pat instead of drawing on the 2nd draw. People agree or disagree? 15 cards twice, with some that improve the badugi.

I guess at this point I call and pat. Though I wish we would have drawn on the 2nd draw.

Rush, is that what you suggested before I derailed this thread with my lack of reading skills?

Hero agrees, sorry for the confusion. I wrote it that way to indicate that I'm not sure patting the 2nd draw is the right play there. I have a strong badugi and a playable low, but perhaps against 2 others I should be drawing to my wheel with 2 draws remaining? I'm looking for discussion on that part of this hand as well.

Rush17, what happened to your first post in this thread? I saw it, Scotch quoted part it, and then it was gone?

I deleted it because I was trying to add another paragraph to it but Scotch had already copied/pasted/quoted it before I had the chance to paste the new post back up.

lol I was quite the nut low in this thread, sorry OP

Anyhow I think we should have drawn 1 on the 2nd draw. But as played call/pat. Unfortunate turn of events because not expecting to scoop, but doing what have to retain as much % in the middle as I can.

Yep this. Villains most likely hand is a better badugi that is free rolling IMO.

Thanks for the discussion everyone, it was good thinking.

At game speed, I figured my badugi was probably good (different then what others think in this thread) and that my low was beat, so I called and drew 1.

When I was typing up the original post, I thought, "I have the 4th nut badugi, this is likely good, I'm freerolling a low draw, I should raise and draw 1 and try to improve my low". Again, this is not what others in this thread were thinking.

The hand played out as follows:

I drew 1 and V1 stayed pat. I drew a 6, I checked intending to c/r, but V1 checked back! He had a 98 low and an 8 badugi and I scooped the pot.

If I had 3 bet after the 2nd draw he would've almost certainly tossed his hand. If I had stayed pat he would've drawn 1 (can't recall if he already had a 5) and possibly chopped or scooped.

I think I just got outplayed here: he thinks that if he raises and I 3 bet (a 7 low or smooth 8 probably) then he knows his hand is no good, or good for half at most, and he tosses it. If I call and draw then he knows that I'm drawing to beat his rough 9 low, my badugi situation is unknown, and I will likely check to him and he will check back every time. If I call and pat, then he will probably draw 1 since he has an 8 badugi and he has to think I'm not patting a worse 9 or a T.