Is there a reason why this form of lowball draw isnt as popular anymore?
Is it because the use of a joker in some cases? I could see why having to put a joker in and remove it in a mixed game setting would be annoying.

Could it be because the must bet 7's rule?


I am curious, cuz it used to be on UB i think, back in the day, but its not anywhere now, and im wondering why.


PS)
Is the "must bet sevens rule" in A-5 optional, I was always under the assumption it was optional, unless specified before the game that the sevens rule is in effect, it was otherwise not.

Am I the only one who thinks this rule is dumb, and for that matter, outside of California, is it even spread in most places? (if even there anymore)

I'm of the belief that 2-7 has some more interesting dynamics i.e. if you have all four 2's you know opponents can't make very good hands. If you have all four A's in A-5 opponents can still make a 6. Another example, in 2-7 an open with 357 is way different than opening with 257. In A-5, an open with 246 is not that much different than opening with A46.

merge network still has it but no one ever plays it

This would only apply in a mixed game setting. Online, it would not be an issue. Also, the only legal poker games in California were draw poker for high and lowball and both used the joker as the Bug. So, the joker did not need to be removed between rounds of play.

Lowball died out when Hold'em became a legally recognized form of poker in California. It has only two rounds of betting, whereas HE has four and so promotes more action. Mason Malmuth has also stated that HE has a good skill to luck ratio: meaning the good players take the money in the long run but the Fish can have a good enough time of it in the short run.

This rule was meant to promote action and I have never read anyone complain of it.

The rule was standard in Gardena, which had the biggest concentration of legal poker rooms in the USA. In home games, I guess people specified.

Not sure if you're getting confused, or if they both said it, but iirc Brunson says exactly this in SS.

Mason definitely says this. He even gave a ratio for the luck/skill element. I no longer have any number of poker books so I cannot say for sure but it may have been in one of the Poker Essays series of books by Mason.

It is not surprising that two eminent poker authorities should have come to the same conclusion.

PS - I love your avatar/icon/image.

I agree with Al Holdem killed off 5 Card Draw because their is more skill with 4 betting rounds instead of only 2 which rewards luck. When I was growing in the 70's all we knew was draw poker and perferred Gin Rummy at the time because I liked the odds and if were not for Phil Gordon and the Holdem boom I would have never played poker.

If you read my post you will see that I am trying to revive draw poker including A-5 lowball but I still have doubters. I only ask that you read A New Approach To Draw Poker and try the game out with some friends. If Five Card Draw is to survive it will have to be tweaked in a way that rewards skill over luck

this is all wrong!
there is way more luck in holdem than in 5 card draw!
and thats exactly the reason why holdem is more popular, because the fish have a bigger chance of winning.

Five Card Draw died out because the fish could not catch up when behind as there was only one draw. The best hand in was usually the best hand out.

Popeye gets the cigar!

the "bet-sevens" rule was standard in northern CA. as well, at least until 2002 when I left for PA.

Michael Wiesenberg had proposed a 4-round format for A-5, first round you get 3 cards, next 2 rounds you get 1 more card each, final round you draw. He called it "Superlow". The concept never caught on.

I often wondered why A-5 was never spread as pot-limit. This would've trounced the concept of 6 bets max in limit-no such caps existed in the Bay Area, IIRC- as alleged colluders would then merely price opponents out of pots... which would sorta kill the game off, until someone far wiser decided it was more +EV to entice opponents to call, as you may have noticed already in KC lowball mtt's.

Note: The old-timers used to tell stories about back in the 50's and 60's when there were were several N/L A-5 games spread in the SF Bay Area and the Central Valley in CA. All these NLHE college kids who think online poker is rigged have never seen a "master mechanic" toss a "slug" into the deck, long before clubs hired professional dealers...

all this info is very interesting, thanks for your replys.
We play A-5 along with 2-7 in our home game, people seem to prefer 2-7, and if I had to choose one, i would as well, but i still enjoy A-5 very much, and was wondering why it wasnt as popular as it used to be, but I guess it goes along with the evolution of poker, maybe it will come back around in the future.

Is it still popular on the west coast? I know that some forms of poker can be popular in some regions of the country and not others, is this the case with A5 draw atm?

Shhhh, don't tell them how am I going to get action!

No.

Depends on what you mean by "popular," I suppose. I haven't seen it played in either a casino or private game for at least ten years. (Maybe it has gotten played in a casino and I've missed it).

Buzz

There was an A-5 tournament and one table of Northern California style A-5 lowball on the last night of cash games at BARGE last year. The cash game was with 2-3-5 blinds (the $2 blind on the button), with a straight $10 limit and an option to "kill" to $20 after seeing your first two cards. I got 2nd in the tournament (out of about 85), basically by playing halfway seriously during the early stages and running hot in the latter stages until I turned into a pairing machine HU. I lost a bit in the cash game but it was a fun trip on a time machine. The players were a mix of old-timers who obviously had played in California back in the day and the curious.

I think 2-7 is superior to A-5 and I don't see A-5 coming back as anything but a nostalgia trip.

One thing I've always wondered is if stuff like triple draw lowball (spread either A-5 or 2-7) or badugi would have caught on in California during the draw games only days. I think they might have, since they have the extra betting rounds and are more action oriented games then any of the single draw variants.

I have played A-5 in mixes at both the Venetian and the Wynn in the last few months.

Tom I agree with you about 2-7, its more fun to play IMO, because its got more action and its less cut and dry.


Thats interesting, were there multiple draw games in the mix or just A5?

Yea, combined with 2-7 and badugi. Pretty awesome.