Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Draw and Other Poker Discussion of poker games not covered elsewhere (e.g. badugi, draw, triple-draw, pineapple)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-11-2017, 02:51 PM   #1
Codfish60
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 33
$27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

I'm posting this hand because I got looked up incredibly light in this spot and was wondering if my line looked credible? Only played with villain for about an hour so no reads other than some weird stuff. He drew 2 on 1st draw and made a pat 875 in a 3 way pot but then checked back all 3 streets. He also capped pre draw in a multiway pot and drew 3 I believe.

As I'm typing this, the guy hero called me with 77 in a 1,1 spot so maybe I'm overthinking it but I wouldn't mind some feedback anyway.
I was planning on just flatting the BB and drawing 3 but then obviously after picking up the case 8, I felt it was a must snow spot.

Poker Stars $24.55+$2.45 Limit 2-7 Triple Draw Lowball Tournament - t320/t640 Limit - 6 players - View hand 3062653
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: t8320 26 BBs
BTN: t7940 24.81 BBs
SB: t14780 46.19 BBs
Hero (BB): t22970 71.78 BBs
UTG: t13420 41.94 BBs
MP: t1970 6.16 BBs

Pre Draw: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with A 8 8 8 2
UTG raises, MP folds, CO folds, BTN folds, SB folds, Hero calls

First Draw: (4.5 SB) (2 players)
Hero draws 3, UTG draws 2
Hand: 9 8 8 2 2
Hero bets, UTG calls

Second Draw: (3.25 BB) (2 players)
Hero draws 1, UTG draws 1
Hand: T 9 8 8 2
Hero bets, UTG calls

Third Draw: (5.25 BB) (2 players)
Hero stands pat, UTG draws 1
Hand: T 9 8 8 2
Hero bets, UTG calls

Final Pot: 7.25 BB
Hero shows T 9 8 8 2 (Lo: a pair of Eights)
UTG shows 5 5 4 3 2 (Lo: a pair of Fives)
UTG wins 7.25 BB
Codfish60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2017, 08:15 PM   #2
RolldUpTrips
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

I think it's good. Calling 55 is really, really awful there.
RolldUpTrips is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 12:06 AM   #3
monikrazy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
monikrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 23,530
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

I hate this line - villain call is bad but just fold pre, drawing 3 and its not even smooth

Last edited by monikrazy; 05-12-2017 at 12:11 AM.
monikrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 01:57 AM   #4
Codfish60
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 33
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
I hate this line - villain call is bad but just fold pre, drawing 3 and its not even smooth
I wouldnt normally call in this spot, but we can't just fold trip 8's here can we? It leaves him drawing very thin whatever he has (4 7's, an 8 and 4 9's with his exact hand, but he may fold/break a 9). So I may be drawing 3 but I figured I was going to snow quite often after the first draw unless I improved to a 1 card draw.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Last edited by Codfish60; 05-12-2017 at 02:20 AM.
Codfish60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 03:03 AM   #5
nickjehz
old hand
 
nickjehz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: OhSnap!
Posts: 1,650
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Codfish60 View Post
I wouldnt normally call in this spot, but we can't just fold trip 8's here can we? It leaves him drawing very thin whatever he has (4 7's, an 8 and 4 9's with his exact hand, but he may fold/break a 9). So I may be drawing 3 but I figured I was going to snow quite often after the first draw unless I improved to a 1 card draw.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Yes and no, you basically forced to make your hand against villain as he seems call happy.
So yes, I understand the logic behind the play here but snowing a player like villain seems -ev to me.
nickjehz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 03:20 AM   #6
chillrob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
chillrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: under a dark cloud
Posts: 9,107
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

First draw donk seems suspicious; don't people always check OOP when they drew more cards?

Also don't get the snow while continuing to draw, but I don't play this game a lot.
chillrob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 04:37 AM   #7
RolldUpTrips
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
First draw donk seems suspicious; don't people always check OOP when they drew more cards?

Also don't get the snow while continuing to draw, but I don't play this game a lot.
3:2 it's actually correct to bet when you improve to 1 because your opponent shouldn't bet UI. It's just a more sophisticated snow - more believable as a hand willing to bet the river than going 3-pat
RolldUpTrips is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 05:53 AM   #8
Codfish60
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 33
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
First draw donk seems suspicious; don't people always check OOP when they drew more cards?

Also don't get the snow while continuing to draw, but I don't play this game a lot.
If i go straight from 3 to pat, my range consists of too many weak pats that don't bet river, so if I did bet river I believe my range would be more polarised and as a result he'd be tempted to look me up lighter (although this particular villain looked me up as light as you can get).

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Codfish60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 01:39 PM   #9
Jon_locke
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,097
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Looks good, I may just go cr and pat after first draw instead but I thin your line is fine also
Jon_locke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 07:05 PM   #10
monikrazy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
monikrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 23,530
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

I think you are overestimating the blocking power of the 8s because once you draw 3 villain can start patting all sorts of garbage and play his entire range super-agressively

When you lead the flop you should expect to get raised often - maybe you will be able to pull off a bluff sucessfully once in a while but you don't need to get involved here - if you get raised are you prepared to 3! Put in multiple big bets the next 2 streets? And once the pot gets big enough will you even have enough fe for your line to be worth it
monikrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 04:32 PM   #11
OnTheRail15
Pooh-Bah
 
OnTheRail15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 3,949
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

I play it the same.
OnTheRail15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 11:20 AM   #12
Jon_locke
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,097
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
I think you are overestimating the blocking power of the 8s because once you draw 3 villain can start patting all sorts of garbage and play his entire range super-agressively
you are underestimating how good all the 8s are. Its hard for villain to make a hand he can play aggressively.
Jon_locke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 04:27 PM   #13
DeathDonkey
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DeathDonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 12,160
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Well played
DeathDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 01:03 PM   #14
electrical
Loaded for bear
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 3,987
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Your line should work and the cards you caught are perfect for it, but snowing with 8882 I would start D1 as this nicely polarizes your D1 range in a spot where you expect to earn more from your snow hands than value hands. If you drew 3:1 and made a good Eight, your opponent would rarely be able to pay you off.

I mean, a pair of Fives I guess...
electrical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 05:57 AM   #15
Codfish60
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 33
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrical View Post
Your line should work and the cards you caught are perfect for it, but snowing with 8882 I would start D1 as this nicely polarizes your D1 range in a spot where you expect to earn more from your snow hands than value hands. If you drew 3:1 and made a good Eight, your opponent would rarely be able to pay you off.

I mean, a pair of Fives I guess...
I like the sound of that line, because it at least gives us bluffs when we're drawing 1 at the 1st draw. Why do we expect to earn more from snows though?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Codfish60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 12:19 PM   #16
electrical
Loaded for bear
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 3,987
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

When you block so many hands your opponents will often give up on the turn because they don't improve enough to continue. This means neither your value bets nor bluffs get called. When a value bet gets called on the turn, your opponents usually have some equity against you, so in this spot you should have more bluffs than value bets.
electrical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 11:17 AM   #17
phunkphish
veteran
 
phunkphish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,649
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

hmm. Maybe villain was already suspicious when you called Pre and drew 3. That is not standard, and signals that you have blockers in hand.
phunkphish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 01:38 PM   #18
OnTheRail15
Pooh-Bah
 
OnTheRail15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 3,949
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish View Post
hmm. Maybe villain was already suspicious when you called Pre and drew 3. That is not standard, and signals that you have blockers in hand.
Calling from bb and drawing 3 is quite standard.
OnTheRail15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 03:12 PM   #19
phunkphish
veteran
 
phunkphish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,649
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

vs UTG? in a tourney?
phunkphish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2017, 03:21 PM   #20
OnTheRail15
Pooh-Bah
 
OnTheRail15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 3,949
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Hero (BB): t22970 71.78 BBs
UTG: t13420 41.94 BBs


Yup...
OnTheRail15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2017, 03:31 AM   #21
Small Balls
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 464
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

I'm surprised nobody noticed that you chose to draw at 9882 instead of 9822 on the flop. It usually doesn't matter, but your hand would've been a value bet!
Small Balls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2017, 02:38 PM   #22
betgo
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
betgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Highest ROI 16/18 & 12/180 in 2011
Posts: 28,559
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Balls View Post
I'm surprised nobody noticed that you chose to draw at 9882 instead of 9822 on the flop. It usually doesn't matter, but your hand would've been a value bet!
Yeh, 22 would have won.
betgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2017, 12:56 AM   #23
Ibreakgames
newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 39
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

You could get creative with this snow. You can literally snow every street with this hand. So you're best idea is to figure out what play will make them believe you have the best hand.

As played, drop the 8 not the deuce. You would have won that way. That's the whole reason to drop the 8.

I would have dropped 1 before the first draw and stood pat on the first draw no matter what I caught.
Ibreakgames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2017, 10:00 PM   #24
OtherMoachist
newbie
 
OtherMoachist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest
Posts: 26
Re: $27 SCOOP 2-7 TD Snow spot

In a cash game, I muck this all the time. Heads up verse UTG raiser, only defending the BB, without 2 wheel cards.

In a tournament however, I understand the line a bit better and learned something from this thread.
OtherMoachist is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online