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Draw and Other Poker Discussion of poker games not covered elsewhere (e.g. badugi, draw, triple-draw, pineapple)

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Old 06-13-2012, 10:09 PM   #1
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: California
Posts: 47
2-7 Single Draw NL Post Draw Strategy

I'm relatively new to the game and was hoping some of you veterans can provide me with your insight of this fascinating game. Thanks in advance!

Bet Sizing
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1. What size bets do you use after the flop? Is it the same size for bluffs as value bets? Do you vary it based on how deep stack sizes are or other factors?

I'm generally betting about 1/3 to 1/2 the pot and use the same size bet for both bluffs and value bets. Am I losing out in value when I make my hand and making it to cheap for people to call my bluffs? I will use smaller size bets (relative to the pot) in MTT's/SNG's as stacks shorten because chip values have increased

Bluffing
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1. How often should you lead bluff?

This is a leak in my game as I very rarely will do this. What are some good strategies to use so it balances out your lead value bets?

2. How often should you bluff in position?

Right now I bluff my absolute worst hands (~= 10% of the time). So if I was drawing at a xxx79 and I caught a xxx77 or xxx99 I tend to bluff. So essentially hands that I know have 0% chance at showdown. Am I bluffing enough here to get value from my strong hands? Does it ever make sense to bluff a medium strength hand (sort of range merge situation)?

3. How often do you bluff into 3 players?
Right now I'm kind of doing this at the same rate as 2 players. Do I need to bluff less in this situation?

3. How do you vary your bluff sizes with 2 or 3 players in the pot after the draw?

I actually bet about the same size or a little bit less as a bet into 3 people. It seems like this bluff would always be interpreted as strong so doesn't need to be as big (plus the pot is larger). Since I more likely to run into a large hand that is NEVER FOLDING regardless of size this seems like a good strategy. Does that make sense?

Value Betting
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1. How often should you lead value bet?

I'm currently leading about 25% of the time and check calling or check raising the rest. Obviously this is dependent on the aggression factor of my opponent
I try to vary my lead value bets so my range includes my weakest as well as my strongest hands. Any good tips on how to keep your range balanced here?

2. What do you value bet in position?

I normally check all of my rough hands and value bet my clean draws. So if I raises up predraw with a xxx59 and hit a xxx79 I would value bet the end but if I caught a xxx510 I will check. Does this make sense? Do I need to value bet thinner then this?

3. How does your value betting change when there are 3 players in the pot?

With 3 players in the pot I'm typically only value betting really strong hands and I tend to bet closer to 1/2 the pot. Is this a good strategy?
Kevin McLain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 10:30 PM   #2
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8
Re: 2-7 Single Draw NL Post Draw Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin McLain View Post
I'm relatively new to the game and was hoping some of you veterans can provide me with your insight of this fascinating game. Thanks in advance!

Bet Sizing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. What size bets do you use after the flop? Is it the same size for bluffs as value bets? Do you vary it based on how deep stack sizes are or other factors?

I prefer larger bet sizes as a general approach. We only have two streets to get value/apply pressure so the pot isn't growing as it does in nlhe.

Bluffing
----------------------------------------------------------------

1. How often should you lead bluff?

Are you talking about any case in particular? Do you mean when it goes 1:0? In any case, think about how many hands you're leading with for value, and with what bet size. From that you can find a balanced amount of the time you should be bluffing to make your opponent indifferent. Then adjust that number based on exploitative factors like if he's someone who folds too much in a given scenario, or you've been generally playing tight and it seems like it's going to work more than normal right now.

2. How often should you bluff in position?

Similar to above, figure out what hands you're going to be leading for value, determine the ratio of bluffs based on that + bet size. Then adjust. Choosing your bluff hands as the worst catches is probably best, but you could also consider things like when you catch an extra deuce. Basically if they potsize is X and your bet size is also X, you'll be giving 2:1 so you want ~2x as many value hands as bluffs. If you say Y cards will give you valuebettable hands, choose the worst Y/2 cards to bluff with. By always choosing the worst catches you are able to keep your bluffing % in check and not delude yourself by trying to do it randomly.

3. How often do you bluff into 3 players?

Some scenarios make more sense than others. But in general, just keep your frequencies in mind. Bluffs are given more credit when they look stronger, and when you have a pat guy in the middle, leading is going to put considerable pressure on him as he has to have a strong enough hand to beat you, and also worry about the guy behind him. Given most pats are mediocre, he's going to have some tough spots.

4. How do you vary your bluff sizes with 2 or 3 players in the pot after the draw?

We can probably value bet less 3 ways in general. Fewer combos of value hands in general I think should make us bet more.
My thoughts, anyway.
Faluzure2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 05:13 AM   #3
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: California
Posts: 47
Re: 2-7 Single Draw NL Post Draw Strategy

Thanks for your feedback!
Kevin McLain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 11:24 AM   #4
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 161
Re: 2-7 Single Draw NL Post Draw Strategy

"it depends"
Ace-Klingodiamonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 10:22 AM   #5
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 36
Re: 2-7 Single Draw NL Post Draw Strategy

[QUOTE=Kevin McLain;33268978]I'm relatively new to the game and was hoping some of you veterans can provide me with your insight of this fascinating game. Thanks in advance!

Bet Sizing
------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. What size bets do you use after the flop? Is it the same size for bluffs as value bets? Do you vary it based on how deep stack sizes are or other factors?

It obviously varies on situation; however I generally bet more than 1/3 pot for sure, we are only playing a 2 street game and want to maximise value from our hands and I dont think betting 1/3 pot in alot of situations will allow us to do this.

Bluffing
----------------------------------------------------------------

1. How often should you lead bluff?

Donk leading with bluffs kind of sucks imo.

2. How often should you bluff in position?

Doing this polarises your range quite alot, theres no balance in your value betting range as you are only betting really good and really bad hands. Bluffing in position is a big part of single draw; eg. an aggro guy 3 bet pat checks, u call draw 1 and bet; this is a horrible spot for him as he knows his hand is basically face up bad 10 or J usually and he also knows you know his hand is face up and that he wont be beating any of your value range thus making it a perfect spot to bluff; I often overbet bluff in this spot as people never find the call!

3. How often do you bluff into 3 players?

Bluffing into 3 players looks very strong so it can be a good play but depending on the pre draw action and how many cards all players drew. Sometimes a good spot to bluff is when u make a hand like 22257 as u have blockers etc.

3. How do you vary your bluff sizes with 2 or 3 players in the pot after the draw?

I actually bet about the same size or a little bit less as a bet into 3 people. It seems like this bluff would always be interpreted as strong so doesn't need to be as big (plus the pot is larger). Since I more likely to run into a large hand that is NEVER FOLDING regardless of size this seems like a good strategy. Does that make sense?

Yes

Value Betting
----------------------------------------------------------------

1. How often should you lead value bet?

Lead value bet is a big part of my game; when an aggro 3 bettor 3 bets you, you call and draw and he pats behind. Leading here with good 10s and better is essential to maximising value as he is going to check behind so many hands we beat and thus lose us value. Dont get stubborn however and make sure to fold 10s and bad 9s to a raise .

2. What do you value bet in position?

This is a piece of string question.

3. How does your value betting change when there are 3 players in the pot?

Yeh for obvious reasons our value betting range should become narrower in 3 way pots, sizing should be the same as if there were 2 or 4 players in though imo.
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