I've had this situation come up more than once and have played it both ways and really don't know what the "correct" play is or if it's definitive. Input appreciated.

Let's say new to table and no reads but assume non spazzy players 40/80 or 100/200 mix game. Ep player open/raise and lp player flats. We 3 from the sb with 2347 or 2357. Both call. We catch 9 on first draw and they both draw 2.

How to proceed???? Bet/Pat? Bet/Draw? Check/Draw? (i've done both the first 2 options, never the 3rd). Are there any scenarios in which you'd deviate? Would you play it same in tourney and cash?

3 ways in a bloated pot where they likely have some of the cards that improve you, pat and pray.

i was about to post "obviously draw 1", but is this right?

assuming worst case that both players have 2 of the cards Hero needs to make a 7: (38/42)*(37/41)=82% you dont make a 7

best case, 8 live cards: (38/46)*(37/45)=70% you dont make a 7

My default is bet and draw one, but I'm not entirely confident that's correct, and it's close enough that I'm happy to vary it based on my perception of my own table image.

Our 1 cd draw is so clean, I'd always draw the first round, so that I have a chance of making a hand I can put in some action with. Even if we don't make an 8 or 7, we can still catch a 9 on the 2nd draw (when I'd probably keep it, depending on villains' action).

Agree w Macau

bet always there, you are ahead. but in first draw i never pat a 9 with that hand. you still have 2 more draws looking for nuts

How clear cut is this for you (and DeathDonkey)? Is it probability based on making a 9 or better with only 2 draws remaining? I've asked numerous people this question and I continue to get mixed answers. Obviously we want to make a hand we can put in action with comfortably rather than pat/pray but is it a clear draw knowing they both are drawing 2 or just a personal preference?

Is your line the same in both cash and tourney?

how solid can these people be if they are drawing two right off the hop? there are 12 cards that can help us, of which presumably some are in our opponents hand (and, presumably, they have also thrown away and were dealt some which don't help us, pairs for us or high cards). we can also catch 9s, tens and jacks which don't help us but give us something anyway. we know 6 cards, so 12/46 or roughly a bit over 50% to improve by the last draw to an 8 or lower if we draw. assuming our two opponents are in equally good shape one of them will improve 75% of the time. they are probably in slightly worse shape, drawing to worse hands or possibly drawing two again.

i say draw and bet.

They would be pretty horrible if they were never drawing 2. The majority of starting hands in this game are 2-card draws.

given player descriptions this is a clear bet and draw

i think against most player types this is the case

but i also think that against very bad players with very wide ranges this is a pat

Galts Motor (v2.01 b76) - Deuce (Triple Draw)
20000 sims in 6.3 seconds

SB - Equity: 42.3%
Range: 97532
After 1st Draw - Pat: 98 Break: 98
After 2nd Draw - Pat: T9 Break: 98

HJ - Equity: 28.9%
Range: 642
After 1st Draw - Pat: 98 Break: 98
After 2nd Draw - Pat: T9 Break: 98

LJ - Equity: 28.9%
Range: 832
After 1st Draw - Pat: 98 Break: 98
After 2nd Draw - Pat: T9 Break: 98

With two draws remaining it's almost a pick between patting and drawing. We have about 51-52% equity 3-handed with either option vs most villain ranges I've tried. If you know villains will start bad then I'd prefer to pat.

Yeah, just ran some more and if either or both villains ranges include rough or bad starting hands (3-straights, 87W etc) then the pat hand equity approaches 65% in some cases while the draw hovers at 55%. So if either or both villains can have wide starting ranges patting is definitely best. It might be a fractional favorite in any case, but there's an implied odds argument to drawing smooth that I grasp, but with unknown villain ranges I'd be inclined to pat now.

I wouldn't pat here with two draws to nuts. I'd bet/draw. though, I'm not positive this is the right play

What sim calculator do you use? I've been searching for sometime now

Galts Motor Poker Calculator I think. Its an IOS app written by Desert Cat I believe.

Thanks all for the replies

So you pat with your 9 OOP and now you're raised on the turn. Now what?

I think against "non spazzy players" patting this hand is good on paper but maybe not so much in a real game against players who know what they're doing. I much prefer to draw here--- if I catch the 9 on the 2nd draw I'd obv. keep it(barring it doesn't go: bet, raise, raise). That hand is just too clean to not draw; I want to play a big pot in this spot.

Hypothetically you could get raised. Hypothetically you could draw the King of Spades. Non-hypothetically, I'm a solid favorite with the pat hand, less so if I draw.

What I'd do if raised depends on who's raising and what I know about him. That's the poker part of the game.

On the deal, drawing or not shades toward drawing if I know villains are likely to have smooth starting hands or if I can peg their drawing decisions accurately. Players drawing smooth are more likely to eventually beat a Nine, and will have breakable hands they can choose to draw to. Often if a villain is drawing one to 8753 then he's less likely to break a Nine if he makes one, but if he's drawing to 7632 he can be more likely. These are examples not rules.

Also, if I'm pat from jump, it's less likely a third player will stick around to draw two on the turn, but if I'm still drawing it's much more likely he'll take a ticket there. I'd rather lose one customer there if possible.

I usually break and draw, mostly because it sucks having this hand on the river. If opponents are the aggressive type who would raise their premium 1-card draws on the flop, I might stay pat and hope they are drawing 2 or rough.