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Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread

03-31-2016 , 07:09 PM
HBK/Taker is absolutely five stars, and on the high end of the five-star scale at that, but I just can't ever see taking it over Bret/Austin. If both just existed in a vacuum then maybe, but one having amazing historical impact and the other having no historical impact at all (aside from giving us a match to drool over forever) is just an impossible gap to close.
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03-31-2016 , 07:11 PM
Also I'm kind of amazed that AJD's epic run of recaps hasn't shamed me into picking back up like True North did. Tip of the cap to you both.
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03-31-2016 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
HBK/Taker is absolutely five stars, and on the high end of the five-star scale at that, but I just can't ever see taking it over Bret/Austin. If both just existed in a vacuum then maybe, but one having amazing historical impact and the other having no historical impact at all (aside from giving us a match to drool over forever) is just an impossible gap to close.
That's always been my feeling as well. Bret/Austin changed the fortunes of an entire company, it doesn't get much more impactful than that.
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03-31-2016 , 07:15 PM
Also - and my apologies for turbo-posting several posts instead of actually bothering to confine my thoughts to one post - I'm just not sure I can put much heat on the bookers for not putting Shawn/Taker last here. It had way less build than Orton-HHH and I'm not sure it was all that foreseeable that an Undertaker match was going to be so ****ing ridiculously good that it needed to go on last, especially as these two had fought before and weren't an example of some really rare first time of two legends meeting.

Rock vs. Hogan being what it was, that was easily foreseeable. This, meh, it's just how things worked out.
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03-31-2016 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by True North
That's always been my feeling as well. Bret/Austin changed the fortunes of an entire company, it doesn't get much more impactful than that.
Right. It's basically Hogan/Andre and Bret/Austin in their own stratosphere of historical importance, at least in American wrestling.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
03-31-2016 , 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
Also - and my apologies for turbo-posting several posts instead of actually bothering to confine my thoughts to one post - I'm just not sure I can put much heat on the bookers for not putting Shawn/Taker last here. It had way less build than Orton-HHH and I'm not sure it was all that foreseeable that an Undertaker match was going to be so ****ing ridiculously good that it needed to go on last, especially as these two had fought before and weren't an example of some really rare first time of two legends meeting.

Rock vs. Hogan being what it was, that was easily foreseeable. This, meh, it's just how things worked out.
I have mixed feelings about this. I think the problem really stems from how they booked H/Orton. The way that feud went, if you do some kind of no-DQ bloodbath, I'm ok with leaving the card the way it is and sacrificing the WHC match as a placeholder to bring the crowd down. But when you hamstring them with that awful stipulation, and they're planning a regular match that they have to know isn't going to set the world on fire, and meanwhile in the other corner you've got two legends planning a 30-minute epic that may very well end life as we know it, I think you have to call an audible.

Of course, the real solution is to move Kid Rock and the women to right after Shawn/Taker.
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03-31-2016 , 07:38 PM
Dammit! I came on here to write my report for this show and I wanted to beat you to it. At least now after I'm done I'll read yours and see how similar or different we found the show
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
03-31-2016 , 07:51 PM
Hint for AJD: If you give HBK/Taker something like two stars, your review will be original!
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
03-31-2016 , 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
Right. It's basically Hogan/Andre and Bret/Austin in their own stratosphere of historical importance, at least in American wrestling.
We're not putting the Doomsday Cage match in there?
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
03-31-2016 , 08:41 PM
WRESTLEMANIA 25th ANNIVERSARY

SIGH!

Let me state for the record, that the sigh wasn't the actual tag line, The 25th Anniversary of Wrestlemania was the real one. The sigh was because this wasn't the 25th anniversary, it was the 25th show, which makes this the 24th anniversary. They did this with Taker's 25th anniversary of Being in the company. Sigh. Let's do some notes.

SHOW THOUGHTS

- Nicole Sherzinger, or something like that gets us started with America the Beautiful. Honestly I don't care what she sang as long as she was on my TV.

- I don't know if this makes me a bad person or not, but there was something I saw during the song which made me laugh out loud. They cut away from the video to show a guy in the front row who someone thought was a soldier. I don't know if he was a soldier or not, but that jacket he was wearing looked like a cheap camo ripoff. Anyway that wasn't the funny part. They cut to hi and he was leaning on the rail, but when he noticed the camera he saluted. Unfortunately for him he looked wayyyyyy to hammered to stand up let alone salute. Had he not been wedged in between people, I'm guessing he would have collapsed.

- Seven minutes into the show and they haven't told us where they are. Maybe they had, but you couldn't hear JR over the crowd.

- They really jazzed up the MITB briefcase this year with the Mania logo. It looks a lot better than the plain black one we have grown accustomed to.

- I guess I jumped the gun a little on the CM Punk era thing from last show, because he is back. It was nice to see him get the win again though.

- I honestly thought Shelton Benjamin broke his neck when he did that senton dive from the top of the ladder. It didn't look like he rotated enough and no one caught him. That seems to be the theme this year. But on second look he did rotate at the very end.

- They finally tell us they are at Reliant Stadium in Houston

- Kid Rock? Really? Kid ****ing Rock? I mean he was good in the late 90's but 2009? His songs were so old a line in the first song was actually "kids with beepers". Who had a beeper in the last 10 years of this show?And did he need to do 5 songs back to back? What is WWE's fascination with out of date bands. I was expecting Limp Bizkut and Saliva to come out and do a closing number together.

- Hey I have a crazy idea, how about you cut Kid Rock about 3 songs short and announce who was in that stupid women's battle royal. Sunny, Torrie Wilson, and Molly Holly were in it allegedly, but I never saw any of them.

- I kind of liked the concept of the HoFers versus Chris Jericho. Of course Snuka and Piper had no business in a ring at this point, but Steamboat still looked good. He probably throws an arm drag better than most of the active roster at this point.

- There was one scary moment with Piper when he went over the top rope with Jericho. He got his left forearm caught in the ropes. He was letting it drag from that point forward.

- I found the Hardy vs Hardy match very uncomfortable to watch for a number of reasons. One reason is that unprotected chair shots to the head are still a thing at this point, and I saw no reason whatsoever for the Twist of Fate with the chair looped around Jeff's head.

- That was one hell of a build up for 15 second match. I guess it was a way to run the retirement angle for JBL. I might be wrong here, but the way he climbed out of the ring after quitting made it feel like this was his last match. Am I correct in this statement?

- Here is a telling stat. After the IC title match, JR says it's been 7 years since that title was defended at Mania. I knew it had been a while because the IC champ always seemed to be in the MITB match, but I didn't realize it had been this long.

- Did they even have tag titles at this point? Or tag teams? Not one tag match on the card.

- A great video package getting us ready for the Shawn/Taker match. The two entrances were really good too.

- Getting back to the not catching your opponent theme, there was a really good sequence where Shawn went for a moonsault from the top rope on to Taker out on the floor. Taker sidestepped him and then slammed him down. I Houston there was a screw up somewhere until Taker did his plancha and Shawn pulled the cameraman in the way and the cameraman didn't catch Taker. I'm assuming that this cameraman was a plant with a fake camera, because I would think if he had a working camera we would have seen a replay from his camera.

- This was probably the best Wrestlemania match I have ever seen. At the very least it is a close second to Hart/Austin at 13. Taker's facials when he couldn't pin Shawn were priceless. The only thing I will knock it for is that I saw that finishing sequence coming a mile away. That not necessarily a bad thing, it just knocked it down a smidge for me.

- I don't know if was because it followed the Taker/Shawn match or not, but I did not like that WHC triple threat match at all. I will say that I really enjoyed Cena's entrance. I also think that logo modeled after the old AWA logo is his best.

- It's time for one of my grand proclamations. I know I missed a bulk of his career, but just based off of his Mania work, Edge was not as good as a lot of people claim he was. I really think his only good matches at Mania were the two TLC matches. I know he still has a couple shows left, but he is leaving me very underwhelmed. I was going to save this for the year it happens, but in case I don't get there, I will also say that he was the least talented performer to headline a HoF induction. Not only that but I will say he was the least talented of the people who were inducted with him.

- Speaking of the HoF. This was a very good class sans Koko B Ware. Sure he was an excellent draw for the kids and had a decent career, but HoF? That's a stretch.

- When Austin came back out with his ATV, did anyone else noticed how he almost ran Steamboat over? Dude, take it easy? Also someone should have taken the keys from him after drinking all of those beers.

- This was the Mania debut of Randy Orton's current ****ty theme which is worse than his previous ****ty theme.

- Oh look. It's HHH in the main event of Wrestlemania. What a novel concept.

- As much as I don't like Orton, I do like the idea of the Legacy faction with Dibiase and Cody. That looked like it had some potential.

- You know the WWE did a good job in building a match when they can get the crowd to cheer Shane and Vince together.

- This match was surprisingly very well done. The action was crisp and the storytelling was top notch.

AWARDS TIME

Match of the Night

HBK/Taker. Awesome from start to finish and the crowd was hot for this too.

Worst Match of the Night

The IC Title match. Just retire the belt already.

MVP

I guess I could give it to Shawn, but I'll switch it up and give it to Taker this time. He really did a lot to tell the story.

LVP

Whoever thought booking Kid Rock and giving him that much time was a good idea. Terrible.

SHOW RANKINGS

Just like 13 this show had one superb match and a lot of lesser ones on the card. With that said this was much better that 13 and falls right around the same spot XXIV does. Another excellent match or two and this could have been top notch.

X-SEVEN
VIII
III
XIV
XIX
23
X
XX
22
VI
VII
X8
V
XXV
XXIV
21
1
13
XII
IV
XI
IX
2
XV

I know I said I was taking a break after the last show, but this time I mean it. Maybe. Until I see you again, thanks for reading.

AJ
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03-31-2016 , 08:57 PM
Nice review. Interesting to see how diametrically opposed we were to the main event.
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03-31-2016 , 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by True North
Nice review. Interesting to see how diametrically opposed we were to the main event.
I liked your review as well. With regards to the main event, were you watching regularly or even semi regularly back then? If you were, then maybe that's why we were opposite. I am only working off of what they give me on the show leading up to it, so everything I saw was ok, but I am definitely understanding the HHH sentiment that is around. If my math and memory is correct, he had now main evented 5 Manias up to this point. He is only 2 behind Hogan at this point, and we know he gets at least one more.
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04-01-2016 , 12:07 AM
Just want to chime in that Taker vs. Edge at 24 was frickin fantastic. I say that as someone who isn't a fan of either.
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09-05-2016 , 01:19 AM
WRESTLMANIA XXVI

Get All Fired Up


Im back, Bitches! Actually just in case you didnt know or forgot, this is my new account. I used to be under AJD804, but when I found out some Russian scum bag was using my account to scam swappers, they had to close that one. Anyway, I know its been a while, but now Im back to hopefully close out these last few Manias. Lets get on to the show.

SHOW NOTES

- We have the obligatory ultra patriotic opening that Vince loves. This includes America The Beautiful sung by someone named after a terrible Disney Movie. I have no idea who Fantasia is and if i never hear another song from her ill be just fine.

- Apparently we are in Phoenix this year at University of Phoenix Stadium. I really wish The Arizona Cardinals would have taken up the local Mexican restaurant chain's bid for the naming rights. Pink Taco Stadium sounds so much better. Either way this was a terrible venue to host Mania. The crowd for 90% of the show sounded like the werent interested. They looked like they were into it, but I guess the sound just went up and out of the hole in the roof.

- Shomiz? Really? This was an actual thing in the WWE? I mean the two wrestlers together were ok, but that name is awful. Breezango is a better team name than that.

- And what was the deal with all of the different belts? If you are going to have a unified championship, then just have one, or in this case two belts. I dont need to see both guys carrying two belts. And eventhough it was never mentioned once. Im assuming that third belt that Miz was carrying was the US title.

- But I guess I cant really ask for much more when it was said that R-Truth and John Morrison got this opportunity by winning a match that aired literally 2 day prior. Great build.

- As I have stated many times before I really dont like matches with more than 2 wrestlers or teams, but the triple threat matc with the former Legacy members was really well done. I just wish it was given more time, but tht seems to be a theme throughout the show.

- How did anyone involved with WWE think it was a good idea to have 10 people in a MitB ladder match? That was the most jumbled piece of crap match Ive seen in a long time.

- I did enjoy the spot where Kofi used the broken ladder as a pair of stilts. Really creative. And Jack Swagger won. Yay!

- Seemed like a decent enough HoF class in 2010. I thought having Ted DiBiase as the headliner was a nice touch as well. In my notes that I was taking during the show I wrote that I found it curious the Bret Hart didnt come out and figured that he was pulling the same stuff he did when he was inducted. I found out later that I was wrong.

- I have to admit something. This is the second time Im attempting to watch this show. I tried once shortly after I did the write up for WM XXV. I fell asleep watching the Sheamus vs HHH match, but I attributed that to not getting a lot of sleep around that time. That wasnt it at all. This match was just boring. It wasnt bad, just boring.

- I am glad to see that the up and comer, HHH got the win here. Hopefully this will launch his career to the next level.

- When I saw that the next match was CM Punk vs Rey, I got legitimately excited that I was going to finally get to see a really good match on this show. While it wasnt close to a bad match, it really wasnt all that good either. I would rate it a solid Meh!

- I know a lot of people think Big SHow's KO Punch is the worst finisher ever, but in my opinion it doesnt get any worse than the 619. Its basically a pair of shins to the head that has to be comically set up. Terrible.

- And I see that my question about Bret Hart not being on the HoF stage was answered. It looks like yet another Legacy Wrestler vs Vince match. At least this one had a legit back story to it

- Isnt it great to see the entire Hart family out there together, pretending to love each other. If you havent read Bret's book, then you have no idea what a collection of turds this family really is. I found myself playing "Who is the scummiest Hart sibling?" during this match. I finally settled on the ref for this match. I think that was Bruce, but who the hell really knows.

- I thought the three man booth of Cole, Lawler, and Stryker just didnt work. I dont think Stryker understood that he wasnt the play by play guy. I really like his work on Lucha Underground, but here it just didnt fit. With that said, he had a great line when Natalya hit Vince during this match. After she hit him he said "Best of luck in your future endeavors." I popped for that line.

- Towards the end of the package that was setting up the Jericho/Edge match, there was a spot where Edge went for a spear and Jericho nailed him with the belt. That shot looked stiff as hell, and didnt look much better when they showed it two more times.

- It was nice to finally watch a match that I would consider good. As stated before Im not a fan of Edge's work as a singles competetor, but this was a good match.

- And of course the followed it up with the 10 diva tag team match. I dont think it could have been botchier if Sin Cara was in it. I did enjoy the Styles Clash that Michele McCool did. That really came out of nowhere.

- In what I can only assume was an homage to LKJ, both World Champs came out first in their respective matches.

- While Batista was walking to the ring, Michael Cole decided to drop some knowledge on us. He claimed that the WWE Championship was defended 25 times up to this point and the title changed hands 15 of those times. Someone needed to remind him that the championship wasnt defended at WM 1 or IV.

- I was shocked that I enjoyed the match between Cena and Batista as much as I did. I really felt with the way the night had been going and the lack of crowd involvemnt up to this point, they had a chance to really stink out the joint. I was pleasantly surprised.

- I really got a kick out of Cena celebrating after his win with the group if ringside people who were wearing I Hate Cena shirts. Really good stuff.

- What can you say about the Taker vs HBK match? It was one of the best matches Ive seen in a Wrestlemania to this point. Im not sure if it was better than their first match, but at worst its just behind it. I just finished watching it about 90 minutes ago, so maybe ill take a little more time to digest it, and also maybe watch both again.

- What a sick moonsault HBK did from the top rope on to the annouce table. Someone needs to tell him he doesnt have to do that stuff. DOnt get me wrong it was awesome, but man it looked scary.

- The aftermatch stuff was really great too. Im glad they didnt play HBK's theme music as he walked out, that would have taken me out of the moment.

- I may have brought this up before, but now that it is over after this match, I would like to talk about HBK's career. Between the time that I came back to watching wrestling in 2014 and having watched and reviewed all of these shows, I heard a lot of people in podcasts and shoot interviews talk about Shawn Michaels in the most glowing terms possible. Austin and Flair have said multiple times that he is the best in ring worker of all time, and before watching these shows, I was shaking my head at that and couldnt figure out why they would say that.

Then I saw his return to the ring work at Wrestlemania and a couple matches at Summerslam. Wow! I guess in his time off he really figured some things out, because he is easily the best wrestler in Wrestlemania history. His work before his retirement after XIV was good. Ive commented a few times here that I really liked it, but I didnt think it came even close to "best of all time" territory. But every match he had from XIX on was just stellar. OK maybe 22 against Vince wasnt stellar, but it was definitely the best match Vince has had at Mania. I dont think there are enough positive words I can use to describe his work so Ill stop now.

AWARDS TIME

Match of the Night


Im pretty sure this is the first and only back to back winner, as HBK/Taker take it again. Just another great match out of them. If I was into giving star ratings this would be a 4 3/4* easy.

Worst Match of the Night

I thought about giving this to MitB because of there being 10 people in it, but it would be a travesty for any match but the Divas tag match getting the nod here. What a pile of steaming turds this botchfest was.

MVP

Even if he didnt deserve it, which he did by a mile, I still would have given it to HBK. Im pretty sure Ive given it to him 4 or 5 times now, so Im just going to rename it the HBK award from here on out.

LVP

Vicki Guerrero. What the hell was that frog splash thing she tried to do in honor of Eddie. Im pretty sure Eddie turned over when she landed on her feet and then flopped down on Kelly Kelly. Oh and then she botched the cover. Who the hell botches the winning pin attempt?

Sign of the Night

Its been a while since I gave it out, and maybe because ive been away from this for so long, Ive softened a bit, but there were three signs I just loved.

1. Right before the Jericho/Edge match someone held up a sign that read "I Hope A Canadian Wins This"

2. There was a sign visible before the Cena/Batista match that was just a Mooninite. If you dont know what a Mooninite is, you need to stop right now, google it, and then spend the next few hours aquainting yourself with ATHF

3. Also there was a sign opposite the hard camera for the Cena/Batista match that read "Batista Likes Fishsticks" I dont know why, but I just loved that.

SHOW RANKINGS

This was a decent show by Wrestlemania standards. It certainly wasnt a one show match that we sometimes get from these, but it also wasnt in the top tier either. I would put it probably a little above X8.


X-SEVEN
VIII
III
XIV
XIX
23
X
XX
22
VI
VII
XXVI
X8
V
XXV
XXIV
21
1
13
XII
IV
XI
IX
2
XV


It feels good to be back, and hopefully I can get into swing of this again and get these knocked out soon. After rereading what others have wrote, I think im in line for some not so good shows coming up. I know one of the main event participants in the next show and Im not exactly thrilled about it. I also havent decided how Im going to handle 31 and 32 yet. Ill probably just rewatch 31 just like every other show, but Im not sure about 32. I guess Ill just rewatch that too, but at 4 1/2 boring hours its going to be a slog. Until next time.


AJ
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 01:32 AM
I commend your perseverance. Just seeing the matches you listed out makes me remember why I don't really want to watch these Manias. Not that this was some over-the-top terrible Mania, but there's just nothing on there that I would want to go back and watch. Edge vs. Jericho was unfortunately quite disappointing, and from memory I wouldn't really call any match on this show great. Pretty epic moment to watch Shawn walk off to end the show though.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 02:27 AM
Quote:
What can you say about the Taker vs HBK match?
I have lots of adjectives for it. None of them are good. Their WM XXV match is the reason the WWE is the way it is now and it started with this garbage match @ 26. They just constantly try to relive Jim Ross's call of the match and it feeling epic but there's a reason it felt epic at XXV. Now there's a reason that people yawn at finishers at PPVs.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 10:29 AM
The 25 title matches does account for I and IV. It was defended twice each at IX and X
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518
The 25 title matches does account for I and IV. It was defended twice each at IX and X
Good point. I had forgotten about that.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated
I have lots of adjectives for it. None of them are good. Their WM XXV match is the reason the WWE is the way it is now and it started with this garbage match @ 26. They just constantly try to relive Jim Ross's call of the match and it feeling epic but there's a reason it felt epic at XXV. Now there's a reason that people yawn at finishers at PPVs.
The bigger issue I see in WWE is that nobody cares about the matches at all until the finishers start. The crowds make noise at the entrances and the near falls, and other than that are disinterested in the matches.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 11:40 AM
Yeah. They really wrote themselves into a corner overcast 20 years by having such a large percentage of matches end with a magic finishing move.

It seems it would have been wiser to have a lot more non-ppv (i.e. Raw) matches end without a magic move, and then they would mean more.

There's also the logic gap issue-- if a guy has some devastating maneuver, which isn't he going for it 100% of the time from start to finish. In the old days Ventura used to cover this by talking about softening a guy up to get him ready for the DDT finish or whatever.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 03:26 PM
And in response to those problems, instead of making other moves mean more again, WWE just increased the quantity of finishers done, making each finisher mean less. The massive influx finisher kickouts are a symptom of a larger disease.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 03:58 PM
Which means we start getting finishers < 5 minutes into the match like in the Cena/AJ match (which the TLF guys tear the **** apart in the TiP episode) and it's just throwing bombs and like watching a bad action flick.
Wrestlemania Rewatch &amp; Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 04:39 PM
There should have been a PWG BOLA match that was exclusively finishers.
Wrestlemania Rewatch &amp; Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 10:40 PM
Reading that review reminded me why I haven't been able to get up the energy to finish his off. 26 was mediocre at best, and then 27 was just so, so bad.
Wrestlemania Rewatch &amp; Ranking Thread Quote
09-05-2016 , 10:43 PM
I still can't believe so many people bought the false finish when HHH tombstoned Taker.
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