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Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread

01-11-2015 , 10:16 PM
XX is turning out to be nearly as big a slog as IV now that I've gotten back to it, but I think I should have it up this week.
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01-11-2015 , 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
Would probably be worth writing it in any app that auto-saves and then copy/pasting over. That's definitely frustrating.
Insta looked these up as soon as I made the post regarding my dumbassness.
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01-21-2015 , 05:06 PM
Wrestlemania III

"Welcome to the SUPERDOME...ERRR SILVERDOME" - Hulk Hogan

The sight of all those people when they show the first live shot is a wrestling memory I'll always remember. The first two WrestleMania's were poorly lit, and indoors. You could generally only see the fans in the first few rows. Between 1986 and 1987 there must have been some major advancements in technology. Or, maybe WWF was coming into it's own and could afford nicer things.

WWF/E claims that 93,173 people attended the third rendition of WrestleMania. Internet skeptics doubt that claim mostly because the Silverdome's max capacity is listed at just over 81,000. Fine then, let's call it somewhere between 81,000 to 93,173. Either way it blew away - I'm assuming - all previous wrestling attendance records. The (if true) 93,173 attendance of WMIII lasted all the way until the 2010 NBA Basketball Game, which was held in Jerry's World. WWE will try to break that record when WrestleMania 32 calls Jerry's World it's home

Aretha Franklin sets the tone with a flawless rendition of "America The Beautiful." I give it 4.99 stars, if only because I'm partial to the Ray Charles version a year prior, which was easily the best thing of WM2.

The Can-Am Connection (Tom Zenk and Chico Santana) vs. Bob Orton and The Magnificent Muraco w/Mr. Fuji

I forgot Tom "Z-Man" Zenk was ever in WWF as I only remember him from Saturday morning episodes of WCW wrestling and maybe as part of a team with Flyin' Brian Pillman.

I had forgotten about this match, but that doesn't mean it was bad. I think we tend to forget the so-so matches more than the really crappy ones or obviously the GOAT ones. This match was moving along quite nicely. I thought it ended pretty abruptly when the Can-Am Connection won with the school yard move known as a "Table Top." 2.25 Stars

Billy Jack Haynes vs. Hercules w/ Bobby Heenan

Billy Jack Haynes has had some interesting things to say about his wrestling career years after it was over. A lot of it seems to be things that nobody believes but himself. Haynes swears that he was originally offered the Hulk Hogan spot by Vince McMahon but turned it down due to his loyalness to Eddie Graham in Florida. He basically is saying the only thing that kept him from being the biggest wrestling icon in the world was him turning down this offer, an offer which may or may not have ever been offered in the first place.

In regards to this match, he swears Hercules gave him Hepatitis-C in it. The problems I have with this theory is that it doesn't appear that Hercules bled any this match. Also, if Haynes was concerned about such things (maybe he wasn't at the time) then he wouldn't have bladed the living crap out of himself (clearly visible) as Herc was hitting him with the chain.

The match itself actually had a decent build-up, with the combatants vying for the title of "Best Full-Nelson."

Funny moment when Ventura points out that both wrestlers "are obviously fond of the clothesline," as there must have been about eight of them executed in this seven minute match.

It all seemed to be going according to plan, with Haynes naturally breaking loose of the Hercules nelson attempt. So, we get to the part where Haynes is going to win by Nelson. He locks it in and....and...and...they fall to the floor where they both get counted out. The bloody stuff I mentioned happens after the match. 1.75 stars. I originally gave this 2 or 2.25 stars but reading about Haynes thinking he could have been Hulk Hogan and the stupid ending, I dropped it down considerably.

Hillbilly Jim, Haiti Kid, Little Beaver vs. King Kong Bundy, Little Tokyo, and Lord Littlebrook

What I remember most about this match heading into is Bundy squashes a midget. I was however mistaken. He only lands an elbow drop on one of the little guys. So the memory I thought I had about this match was false just like Bundy's hopes of staying up on the upper-side of the card after facing Hogan in the main event of WM2 just a year ago.

Also, how was Hillbilly Jim so over? He got a top-6, or so, pop on the night. Cousin Elmer was stupidly over too (gone from the WWF by now), as I learned when I watched the first couple episodes of Saturday Night's Main Event a few months ago. Anyway, Bundy gets disqualified for beating up a midget. No rating.

Between matches we get a Randy Savage promo with Mary Hart. WWF was finally getting the idea with giving the celebrities a backstage presence instead of jamming a mic in their face and letting them have a go on commentary. To be fair, Bob Uecker had some funny lines in the last match, many of which weren't exactly PC.

Harley Race w/Bobby Heenan and Fabulous Moolah vs. Junkyard Dog - Loser Must Bow Match

I always tell myself I'm going to go watch some old Harley Race stuff, as he was about 10 (12? 15?) years past his prime by the time he reached the WWF. As a kid I always thought he looked ridiculous as he looked nothing like the other wrestlers with his perm and really big gut. Later in life I would learn he is one of the toughest guys to ever lace them up and has some pretty epic promo's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XBbdh1HHKc

As you can see from my previous Mania posts, I am not a big JYD fan. Like my plan with Race, I do plan on revisiting some "prime" JYD matches, which like Race, didn't take place in the WWF.

Another thing appreciated about this card so far is that even for matches that are going to get about five minutes, they mostly had a back story. In this match, JYD is upset that Harley Race - Now "King" Harley Race - after winning the inaugural King of the Ring tournament now makes his opponents kiss his feet after losing to them. JYD also doesn't believe the WWF should have a king because the USA has never had a king.

Heenanference gives Race the very brief upper hand. JYD ends up flat on his back on the outside and Race does a headbutt from the apron which I thought looked really cool. I also thought he landed it. Apparently he didn't. Ah, now I get it. Seconds after writing this Race tries a headbutt in the ring which JYD shrugs off. JYD has the head of a Samoan, so these things don't hurt him. Maybe Race did land the outside the ring headbutt. It was hard to tell from the camera angle. Well it all makes sense now.

Race does some over the top rope spots. Heenan interferes again from the apron. Race lands a belly-to-belly suplex and holds on to the win. It seemed a bit botchy as my first thought was the referee counted to five and JYD looked a little confused after the pin.

JYD is now required to bow to Race but something tells me he's not going to do it. Well he did. Right before he hits Race in the head with a chair. Jesse calls his actions as being the worst cheap shot he's ever seen. The crowd being so into this is making me grade higher than maybe I would have if the same thing would have taken place in the two years previous. .75 of a star, though I feel a bit dirty giving it that much.

Hogan cuts a pretty good promo pitting him as the underdog who may indeed be suiting up for his "Last Ride." He also said "If the dirty air don't get you the politicians will." Just thought that was worth pointing out as I never really heard him talk like that before.

The Dream Team (Greg Valentine and Brutus Beefcake) w/Johnny Valiant and Dino Bravo vs. The Rougeau Brothers (Jacques and Raymond)

I was confused with the fans cheering the Rougeau Brothers because I had only ever remembered them as bad guys. However, getting "already in the ring" treatment here, i didn't like their chances as faces.

The first two WrestleMania's gave me a little more respect for Valentine, as I thought he cut a good promo as IC champ in the first one, and then was part of the best match (Dream Team vs. Bulldogs) at WrestleMania 2.

I always liked Jacques Rougeau. I liked him here, I liked him as The Mountie, and I liked him as "We're not the Mounties" as one half of The Quebecers. It's sort of like fans rooting for Hillybilly, I don't quite understand it, but I went with it.

Bobby Heenan joins us in the broadcast booth about halfway through this four minute match. He's incredibly excited about being 2-0 at this WrestleMania. He says the Bundy match doesn't count as a loss because "I wasn't out there and I don't have anything to do with midgets." LOL.

Meanwhile in the ring, Beefcake accidentally hits Valentine while trying to get him out of a sleeper hold. The Rougeau's do an awesome tag team move where Greg Valentine was being held up by Raymond and Jacques does a cannonball type move off the top rope. That as the ending would have been sweet but instead Dino Bravo German dead dogs Raymond (Gorilla's words, not mine),giving The Dream Team the win. After the match the Dream Team breaks up for no apparent reason, making Beefcake a babyface. Weird. They're possibly trying to say that Beefcake didn't like winning by cheating but they did an awful job selling that angle. 2 confused stars.

Roddy Piper vs. Adrian Adonis w/Jimmy Hart Hair vs. Hair Match

It's all beginning to come clear as to why Beefcake turned face last match...sort of...

I've semi been looking forward to this one because a couple of the other reviewers said that they enjoyed this match quite a bit. I feel I must have fast forwarded through this match when I was a kid because it's another I don't remember. I wrote before that I never really knew what to make of Adonis or his character. Adonis all around seemed/seems like a good guy, as after his death Piper swears that Adonis's ghost alerted the Piper family that the Piper house was about to burn down due to some logs that had rolled out of the fireplace. Then again, it's Piper telling this story, so...

This match stems from Piper being upset that his show "Piper's Pit" was replaced for "The Flower Shop," hosted by Adonis. Adonis and Piper's former buddy Orton beat up Piper. In one of the segments Hart blasts Piper in the back of the head/neck with the microphone but Piper no sells it or forgets to sell it and turns around and looks at him before Adonis puts a sleeper hold on him. In another segment Piper destroys the set of "The Flower Shop," which was never rebuilt. However, to this day they still throw Piper out there to do a segment of The Pit.

Piper cut a brief promo before the match, indicating that this match was his swan song. Adonis got trash thrown at him on the way to the ring while the crowd was raining down boos. Piper is the face here but a few people are still throwing trash on him, so I guess they forgot to read the memo, however he was certainly over and seemed to be enjoying the fanfare.

Apparently it's a no DQ match, as Piper starts laying it on Adonis with the belt at the start of the match. Adonis eventually gets control of the belt and gets his licks in. Piper throws Adonis into Hart and they both go flying over the top rope. The crowd is going ape bananas for this.

Hart's all over the place in this match. After getting thrown into Adonis by Piper he then trips Piper up as he bounced off the ropes. A real stiff clothesline by Adonis follows.

Adonis hooks in Goodnight Irene (a sleeper) after Hart sprays perfume in Piper's face. Adonis think's he's won it, but Piper's hand only went down twice. While Adonis is celebrating his non-win Beefcake comes flying down. I honestly thought that Beefcake was coming to beat up Piper as I forgot the half-assed attempt to make him a babyface just a few minutes prior, and I think about half the crowd did too. Again, terrible job on his turn earlier. Anyway, Beefcake revives Piper from his slumber. Piper knocks Hart out of the ring, avoids a bashing with the scissors Adonis was holding which bounces off the ropes and hits himself in the head (use your imagination there.) Piper locks in a sleeper, getting the win.

Beefcake uses clippers to cut almost all of Adonis' hair while Piper holds Hart down with a boot. Adonis wouldn't be in the WWF much longer than this and unfortunately wouldn't in this world much longer as he would die in a car crash about 15 months later. His ghost lives on, however.

A fun 3 stars.

The Hart Foundation and Danny Davis w/Jimmy Hart vs. The British Bulldogs with Tito Santana

The Hart Foundation and crooked referee Danny Davis get already in the ring treatment, however this match will prove my theory of that distinction always meaning doom isn't always true.

Having been suspended "for life plus 10 years" for being a cheating referee with the last straw being him doing all he could to help Macho Man win the IC title from Tito Santana. A little before that he "literally handed the Hart Foundation" the championships. Here he is making his wrestling debut at WrestleMania. To be fair he had competed as a jobber known as Mr. X for years prior, but that's neither here nor there.

I forgot The Hart Foundation were champions here around the same time I was thinking this would have been great as just The Foundation vs. The Bulldogs. Now that I know the titles could have been at stake? Even more so. However, the crowd seemed to be pretty into this whole deal without the titles at stake.

Mary Hart unfortunately joins us in the booth here with Gorilla and Uecker as Jesse was down at ringside being introduced to the crowd then riding the mini-ring back while holding Matilda the bulldog.

The early portion of the match is mostly Foundation vs Bulldogs with a little bit of Tito sprinkled in, which is predictably pretty good. The action is back-and-forth, and making me sad it will be over the second they have to tag in Davis. Gorilla is now calling Bret Hart "The Excellence of Execution," which is where that term would stay. A year prior I think he was trying that term of for a few people, including Hercules. I thought I had written about it but it must have been some of the text I lost because I can't find it.

The Foundation takes enough control of Dynamite Kid to allow Anvil to tag Davis. Davis lays two boots to Dynamite's head and tags right back out, which the crowd booed heavily. A few moments later he's back in, this time to land a few shots to the Kid's gut, and again tags right back out. The third time they tag him backfires, as The Foundation tries to slingshot him into the ring from the apron but Kid gets his knees up. The hot tag goes to Tito who lands his flying forearm to Davis, but doesn't go for the pin. Instead he goes for the figure four, but is met with a stiff clothesline from The Anvil.

Davey Boy gets the tag and lands a pretty tough looking clothesline of his own to Davis. He then lands a (not yet popular) tombstone piledriver followed by a suplex and powerslam. Anvil breaks up the pin. All six men pile into the ring which causes enough distraction for Davis to get the microphone from Jimmy Hart to lay it in on Smith giving the bad guys a fairly surprising victory. I sort of liked this more than I thought I would, though I don't see why they just don't give the faces the win here. 2.75 stars.

Butch Reed w/Slick vs. Koko B. Ware

This is the first match that could be considered a throw away match. It's also the second match in a row where they crush my "already in the ring" theory, as Butch Reed gets the win while Koko got to ride to the ring in the mini ring.

The best thing about this match is that when it is over it means Macho vs. Steamboat is up.

After a very long three minutes and change Reed wins when the momentum of a crossbody by Koko gives Reed the leverage to pin Koko B. ( The B is for Buckwheat according to Jesse) Ware.

After the match, Jesse makes another good point. Reed and Slick beat up Koko with Slick's cane (before Tito makes the save) but ONLY AFTER Koko sneak attacks Reed (I don't think they were saying "Pearl Harbored" anymore, however they were still saying Chico and Buckwheat). Slick gets his clothes torn by Tito before he can safely scurry away. A lot of the heel stuff here after the matches has been justified based on the faces being sore losers.

And FINALLY I’ve made it to…

(IC Champ) Randy Savage w/Miss Elizabeth vs. Ricky Steamboat w/ George “The Animal” Steele

I’m not joking. Knowing that this match was coming pretty much got me through the first two WrestleMania’s.

So much has already been said about this match in this forum, with LKJ’s wonderful write-up of it in his tribute thread to Macho Man coming immediately to mind.

I would guess I’ve seen this match upwards of 20 times. To this day I’m still surprised it clocks in at just under 15 minutes. That’s certainly not an insult to suggest I though this match drags too long. I just have it in my head a lot of time that most great matches tend to approach 30 minutes, so if anything it’s a compliment that do so much in such a short period of time.

If you had somehow never heard a thing about this match, but new a bit about their history going into said match, I could see where you would be afraid this could turn into something silly. Savage and “The Animal” previously had a feud that was flat out a waste of time and a waste of Macho Man’s talent’s. So for the powers to be to let them do their thing, for the most part, is much appreciated.

The match is based around Macho Man almost ending the career of Steamboat by jumping off the top rope with a ring bell and planting it right in The Dragon’s throat.

After a quick start by Steamboat – including those beautiful armdrags - Macho takes control. After dropping some elbows into the throat of Steamboat who was draped over the ropes – to remind us why we’re having this match – the action really picks up.

Part of me is inclined to stop talking about the action and just implore all of you to find 15 minutes to watch this match.

After Macho Man gets caught in the ropes and breaks free after a few shots from Ricky, this really starts to take off. For about a minute straight both wrestlers are in constant motion with reversals coming in bunches. After Steamboat “Skins the cat,” Macho clotheslines him over the top. On the outside Gorilla proves to me that the term “Pearl Harbor Job” is not dead afterall, as Macho slams a running knee into the back of Steamboat who flips over a guardrail.

The Animal helps Steamboat get back into the ring. For his troubles, Steamboat gets tossed right back over the top rope, followed by Macho’s patented double ax handle from the top rope. After a double axe handle off the top rope when Ricky is back in the ring, Savage holds unto Steamboat’s head while jumping over the top rope and onto the floor while dropping Steamboat’s throat on the top rope. Always one of my favorite spots.

Steamboat finally gets the upper hand after a couple of false starts by tossing Macho Man over the top rope, high into the air, and onto the blue mats outside of the ring. With Macho back in the ring, Steamboat basically jumps over Dave Hebner to deliver a karate chop from the top rope Macho man gets his foot on the ropes to avoid the three count. A large part of the crowd thought it was over. Ricky then tries about five different ways to pin Macho Man. While getting a two count on a small package, Jesse tells Gorilla “This is one of the greatest matches I’ve ever seen.” The crowd is in agreement, as they are hanging on to every single count, wanting to erupt.

After two more pin attempts, we get the tiniest of breaks in the action for these guys to catch a breath. Macho slams Ricky into Hebner, which gives us “the ref is down spot.” Macho lands his elbow drop, but of course there is no ref. He goes outside to get the bell, but Animal takes it from him. Macho grabs it back and heads to the top, but Animal pushes Macho off the top rope. Macho is slow to get up but beats Steamboat to his feet. While pulling up Steamboat for a bodyslam, Steamboat hooks in a small package just in time for Hebner to come around to give Steamboat the 1-2-3.

I’m going to give this 5 stars, but I could see why some would go less. Maybe they didn’t like the ref spot and/or Steele getting involved. I can think of a few matches that I would possibly rate higher in terms of mastery of the art, but if I’m grading on how much I enjoyed it, I go five stars every day. Maybe one day I can rate all my 5 star matches, but that may take the fun out of things. Another point is that this match blew away anything the WWF was doing at this time. It certainly blew away anything they did the first two WrestleMania’s. Again, 5 stars.

Final notes on this match – Ricky Steamboat said in his documentary that this was the epitome of his wrestling career. Steamboat had great matches with Flair (among others), but for him, this was as good as it got. On the other hand, Savage’s brother said Macho was always trying to look for the magic he got from this match. He thought he could recreate it with HBK years later, but because Macho wasn’t apart of “The New Generation” he never got his chance. Of all the great matches these guys had they both said (if we are to believe Randy’s brother, Lanny) that this was the top of the mountain for both of them. That's saying something.

Jake “The Snake” Roberts w/Alice Cooper vs. Honkey Tonk Man w/Jimmy Hart

If this were modern day WWE we’d follow the previous match with a Diva’s title match or some other match where the fans can scurry off to the bathroom and not feel like they're missing anything. This match however had a long time storyline coming to an end. In short, Honky Tonk Man had blasted Roberts with a guitar during a segment on "The Snake Pit." The real life problem with that spot was that it was a non-gimmicked guitar. This spot injured Roberts in real life and a lot say he was never the same after this. Honky Tonk Man has said that he didn’t intentionally injure Roberts but there are some – including Jimmy Hart – that say otherwise (Partial credit to wiki).

If what is said about the guitar is true, I wouldn’t have been surprised to see Jake take some liberties with some of his shots in this match, but it doesn’t seem like he did. Jake controlled most of the early action before Jimmy Hart distracted him allowing Tonk to send Snake into the guardrail. Honky indicates that he’s going to go for the Shake, Rattle, and Roll (reverse neck breaker) but elects to go back to punches and ax handles.

He finally goes for his finisher, but gets back dropped for his troubles. Jake takes control shortly thereafter. After a few minutes he goes for the DDT, Hart interferes. Honky Tonk uses the ropes to get a pretty surprising 1-2-3.

Right after the match Snake tries to hit Tonky with his own guitar but he ducks and it explodes on the ring post. That guitar – unlike the one that bounced off Snake’s head in The Snake Pit – was certainly gimmicked, as it exploded into a million pieces. The team of Snake and Cooper proceed to put Damian the snake on Hart for about two seconds before Hart ran out of the ring screaming for his life. I legit don’t think he liked that spot. 2 stars.

The Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff w/Slick vs. The Killer Bees (B. Brian Blair and Jim Brunzell) w/ Jim Duggan

Ohhhhh, so here’s the cool down match. Also, Unexpected Pairing of the Night Award goes to Slick with Sheik and Nikolai.

Slick is still wearing his clothes from earlier in the night when Tito Santana started to rip them off, pretty funny.

Volkoff is singing The National Anthem of Russia, and like they should, the crowd gives him nothing but respect. Just kidding. About five seconds into the song, Hacksaw Jim Duggan came running down the aisle to interrupt the anthem. Hacksaw hadn’t added “HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO” to his repertoire yet, for what that’s worth.

The ring is filled with trash as this match starts because of the crowd throwing it in by the bucket during Volkoff’s singing.

To start the match I saw something I never thought I would see, which is Volkoff and Sheik doing a do-si-do as the Bees threw them into each other during a reversal. True story.

This really isn’t that bad. I shouldn’t be too surprised, as Volkoff and Shiek were one half of arguably the best match at WrestleMania 1, where they faced The Dream Team (Bray’s dad and Barry Windham).

For about five minutes it’s a solid match before Duggan chases Volkoff into the ring with his 2x4 and then decides to whack Sheik with it, who had been in the middle of the ring applying the camel clutch to one of the Bees. Honestly, the faces did a lot of things at this WrestleMania that wouldn't have made you proud to be rooting for them. This was really more about Hacksaw having a budding feud with Volkoff and Sheik than anything to do with The Killer Bees. 2.25 stars.

(c) Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant w/Bobby Heenan – WWF World Heavyweight Championship

This match has been billed as one of the most historically important matches in WWF/E history, and it’s hard to disagree with that assessment. The match basically invented the term “passing the torch,” in terms of wrestling history, anyway.

Once friends, Andre was feeling a bit jealous when Hogan was given a bigger trophy for his accomplish for being champion for three years than he was given for being undefeated for 15. Andre, a long time face of WWF, had gone heel. Hogan didn’t want to fight his friend, but after Andre beat him up a couple of times and also ripped his rubber shirt off, Hulk changed his mind and the Silverdome was more than happy to host.

It’s an interesting choice to have Bob Uecker be the special guest ring announcer for this one. This was billed as one of the biggest matches in history so it should have kept a more serious tone, instead of having Uecker – a comedy act, more or less – introduce the combatants to the ring. To be fair, he kept it pretty straight laced, though I’m sure “The Fink” would have loved to have the call on this one.

Up until this match, Andre had never been granted a championship match. I have to imagine having Andre main event cards around the country with some of the heel champions of the past would have made pretty good money. Others would disagree that The Giant was above the championship as he already had his “thing” which was his massive size.

Andre had moved pretty well the first two WrestleMania’s. Not great, but a lot better than I remembered and a lot better than he moved here. Andre nearly gets the win early when Hogan tries to slam him but Andre fell on him instead. This near 3 count would come in handy later when Hogan and Andre feuded after this match due to that controversy(from “now” through WM 4, if I recall).

After Andre works on Hogan for a minute or so, you see a piece of trash fly into the ring, in which Joey Marella – son of Gorilla – catches it in pretty slick fashion. It must have been real cool for Gorilla to see his son refereeing one of the most iconic matches of all time.

The match follows the basic Hogan match blueprint. He Has some success early, bad guy takes control for a long while with Hogan getting a few false starts here and there, and finally Hogan overcomes the odds to win it all. While fans have been seeing it for a few years at this point, they were still highly into this match, as they were for all of Hogan's matches, for years to come.

One spot has always always made me lol a bit, but I feel like it was edited on the Network, and my VHS of this event is long gone. This is the spot - Outside of the ring Andre attempts to headbutt Hogan who is against the post. Hogan moves and Andre very slowly and deliberately rams his head into the post. On the network, at this moment, the camera view changes to a very far away and wide shot. I think my VHS of this kept the close up view and I would always laugh at how bad it looked. What also looks bad is the subsequent back drop Andre “executes” on Hulk outside of the ring onto the exposed concrete floor. Hogan fell about as light as a feather.

Back in the ring, Hogan knocks Andre down with a big clothesline, when Andre gets up Hogan slams the big guy, drops the big leg, and retains the title.

As others have noted, it’s very hard to rate this match. It’s not a great match, but it’s not awful either. If you’re big on historical significance then it probably goes up at least a bit more in your eyes. It does in mine. I’ll go with a fairly confident but could easily change 2.5 stars.

Final thoughts on this show – Dave Meltzer seems pretty hell bent on poo poo’ing on this show. He loves to argue that the actual attendance was actually closer to 70,000 than it was to the 93,000 and change WWE. He also rates Hogan – Andre negative 4 stars while also naming it “The Worst Worked Match of the Year.” Come on man, this was mid 80’s WWF. Are you telling me there wasn't one match that was worse than this. This seems like a personal vendetta more than a true rating. I mean, even on this card we had a midget’s match that wasn't exactly a work of art, in which he gave a full star. To be fair, he rates Macho vs. Steamboat a respectable 4.5.

WrestleMania 3 is easily the best of the three. The production, the crowd, announcing, matches, so on and so forth, all better.

My Order in First to Worst
WM 3
WM 1
WM 2

Looking ahead – Not looking forward to what I remember about WM 4, which is ugly carpets, and some awful matches.

Last edited by Tragichero; 01-21-2015 at 05:19 PM.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-21-2015 , 06:43 PM
Seriously good reviews.

Who do you think Meltzer had a personal vendetta against? I think some people just really hate that style of match that Andre and Hogan had (I'm not one of those people but I've read stuff they have written). The worst worked match of the year in WON is determined by voting not Meltzer unless it was different at that point.

Andre had championship matches before. Most of the 'facts' in the build for the Hogan/Andre match were a work. He wrestled Harley and Bockwinkel for example. I don't know if he ever wrestled a WWWF champion for the belt but 90% of the time a face held that belt anyway.

Last edited by moorobot; 01-21-2015 at 06:50 PM.
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01-21-2015 , 10:04 PM
I think it was Vince, Meltzer pretty much worshipped Ric Flair back then and I think was on the bandwagon where the NWA was serious wrestling and the WWF was cartoonish crap.
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01-21-2015 , 10:29 PM
Looking at Wrestlemania I, II, and IV and even parts of III, WWF was cartoonish crap at the time for the most part.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-21-2015 , 10:40 PM
The fact that the cartoonish crap was drawing way more money than the serious wrestling could ever hope to probably frustrated him to no end.
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01-21-2015 , 10:43 PM
The point does remain that WWF had tons of crap brawls on the Hogan-Andre level from a technical standpoint, and he was just doling out that rating as a temper tantrum.
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01-21-2015 , 10:51 PM
A quick Google search has Melttzer giving -4 stars to Sid vs Nightstalker in 1990 WCW and a 95 NJPW match, and -5 to JYD vs Moondog Spot in addition to Hogan/Warrior in WCW. The man must be prone to temper tantrums. Did Meltzer give the rating "dud" to the 1987 scaffold match at NWA Starrcade because of an NWA bias?

I'm not going to ascribe an intentions narrative to this.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-21-2015 , 10:57 PM
The only alternative is that, for instance, he truly considered Hogan/Andre to be a full five stars worse than JYD vs. Harley Race from the same show.

Whatever you want to call it, -**** is a rating doled out as an exclamation of hate, and if the same match had occurred in the middle of the card without being as big of a deal in the wrestling landscape, there's no chance that he gives it that rating.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-21-2015 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moorobot
Looking at Wrestlemania I, II, and IV and even parts of III, WWF was cartoonish crap at the time for the most part.

I thought the WWF had much better characters than the new WWE.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-21-2015 , 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moorobot
Seriously good reviews.

Who do you think Meltzer had a personal vendetta against? I think some people just really hate that style of match that Andre and Hogan had (I'm not one of those people but I've read stuff they have written). The worst worked match of the year in WON is determined by voting not Meltzer unless it was different at that point.

Andre had championship matches before. Most of the 'facts' in the build for the Hogan/Andre match were a work. He wrestled Harley and Bockwinkel for example. I don't know if he ever wrestled a WWWF champion for the belt but 90% of the time a face held that belt anyway.
Thanks for the kind words.

The vendetta thing was more of an assumption on my part as I was writing about it. I assume it was a bit of slander without any facts to back it up, but you know, just my opinion, and what not.

The WON started in 1980 and for the first 14 years the awards were voted on between Meltzer and his friends. If anything, my vendetta remarks make more sense looking at this.

Yeah, On Andre, I guess the assumption was never a WWF title shot and WWF didn't like to talk about the past federations their stars were in, though I do feel a few times they allude to it during this period. I did consider your 90 percent face stat when writing the line about him potentially making money fighting for the title. I even said myself that Hogan had been the champ for three years going into WM3, so we go back quite a ways.

Thanks again for reading!
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-21-2015 , 11:13 PM
Here is an interview with Meltzer about Wrestlemania 3 from 2012. He does call it "a good show" and praises Hogan/Andre from a storytelling perspective. I wonder if he would have changed his rating 25 years later:

https://bostongardenbalcony.wordpres...-dave-meltzer/
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-21-2015 , 11:15 PM
I responded to moor before reading any of the other comments because I had left a bit of the message up on my computer before heading out for a while. I have probably spent entirely too much time speaking on Meltzer in this thread. I was going to add in my WM3 review that I go to Meltzer to check out awesome matches of the past, and for the most part he hasn't steered me wrong. I certainly don't have any hatred towards the guy and wouldn't mind picking his brain, given the chance. After this rant I'll probably not spend as much time on him in future reviews, but then again maybe I will, lol.

I think those that said his - ratings are indicative of temper tantrums are on to something. It's his rating system, and he can do what he wants, but to give this a -4 while giving other literal jokes of a match actual ratings - even if a .5 of a star - just shows he has something personal against this match in some way(s).
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-22-2015 , 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyB66
I thought the WWF had much better characters than the new WWE.
One huge plus compared to today was that WWF tended to let natural talent shine through. When Jake Roberts was given a script for a promo by the TV company at Saturday Night's Main Event, people were a lot more shocked that they gave Jake ****ing Roberts a script than they were when he didn't follow it. Similarly, Bobby, Gorilla, and Jesse weren't micromanaged and forced to talk about Twitter and such. But other 80s wrestling companies wouldn't have scripted these guys either.

I'm not a big fan of the contemporary WWE product outside of NXT, but the WWF cast of characters wasn't that great in 85-86 compared to, say, 97 or 2002.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-22-2015 , 02:14 AM
Tragic hero-- great write up. You have a good sense of setting the event's context without going overboard with facts that we've all heard a thousand times.

Well done.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-22-2015 , 08:43 AM
Feels like 1995 has to be the real low point in terms of characters in wrestling.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-22-2015 , 01:30 PM
1995 was the nut low for wrestling in general.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-22-2015 , 01:46 PM
Kevin Nash holding the WWF Title for nearly the entire year will do that.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-26-2015 , 07:27 PM
PSA: This podcast is doing the exact same thing, splicing in audio from fans, audio from the event, and each one has an interview with Dave Meltzer at the beginning.

It's every Wednesday, XXII is this week. Available on iTunes.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/tag/the-lapsed-fan
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-26-2015 , 07:41 PM
Holy **** 309 mb download?
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-26-2015 , 07:49 PM
Holy **** 5 hours 37 minutes for Wm xx?
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-26-2015 , 07:55 PM
Are the interviews with Meltzer at the beginning longer than Raw?
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-26-2015 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
Holy **** 5 hours 37 minutes for Wm xx?
I'm watching it now, the show itself almost feels that long.
Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Quote
01-27-2015 , 12:27 PM
Thanks for everyone who has given me compliments on my write-ups, I definitely appreciate it.

I might have to check out the Meltzer stuff, but I am sort of trying to stay away from his reviews (match and card ratings/reviews) so it won't interfere with my thought process. However, it's very hard not to check to see what he's rated a match, though a few times it's upset me, as evidenced. About a quarter of the way through WM4...
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