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Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread Wrestlemania Rewatch & Ranking Thread

09-25-2014 , 11:19 PM
That is WrestleMania XV
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09-25-2014 , 11:19 PM
I liked the LOD, but to this day I have nightmares about Hawk attempting really lame one-liners and then Vince McMahon from the broadcast booth doing his corny over-the-top affected laugh in reply.

I did appreciate the time that he threatened to kick Shawn Michaels's teeth down Steve Austin's throat though (as a send-up to Michaels's mic botch made the week before during maybe his most intoxicated on-screen appearance ever).
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09-25-2014 , 11:25 PM
Finished watching XIV tonight. The main event was better than I remembered, but I still don't love the finish. HBK chomping away on his gum after the Tyson KO right as the camera zooms in on his face is pretty funny.

All in all, probably the most consistent quality in-ring work of any 'Mania up to this point. Nothing on the show out-and-out sucks. Worst match is Aguila/TAKA.
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09-26-2014 , 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosekanen
Hawk's awful drug and alcohol problem likely had something to do with LOD ****ting the bed as well. They were only good for a squash. Not great at excessively planned matches.
They were better in the ring than Demolotion overall but of course the best work they did was in Japan and in NWA/WCW. By the 2nd WWF run they might have been done, but the reason for the lack of good matches during the first run is probably due mostly to how they were used.
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09-27-2014 , 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated
That's the fourth match.

Speaking of Austin's entrance. If I ever watch it, I'm sure I'll just think about how it's the one time he wore his t-shirt instead of a vest because of his marital problems before his flight to Boston.
Explain?
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09-29-2014 , 09:54 PM


WrestleMania XV gets its week in the sun, whether it deserves it or not.
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09-29-2014 , 09:54 PM
WrestleMania XV

Boyz II Men in 1999? Really? They were already fully flamed out by then.

Hardcore Title: Billy ****ing Gunn (c) vs. Hardcore Holly vs. Al Snow: Always good to see Billy Gunn actively disgracing a title. This match was just kind of a pointless mess. Three men would show how a hardcore title triple threat match should be done a couple of years down the road, but these guys lacked the requisite time machine to learn beforehand. **** this crowd for getting behind Billy Gunn so hard. Anyway, fun bump by Snow into the table is about the only moment of this match that I really enjoyed. Ending is dumb. Match is generally dumb. 1/2*

Tag Team Titles: Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett (c) vs. Test & D-Lo Brown: Sadly this would be Owen's Mania curtain call. Match on paper doesn't look interesting, but it's halfway watchable in its short duration. Nice powerbomb spots by Test and D-Lo, and a good ending double-team spot by Jarrett and Owen. Still, no idea how I found **3/4 for this match in my Owen Hart tribute thread. It wasn't near that good. *1/2

Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean: Like…I don't completely hate this, but my support for it is all based on it being funny to watch the Brawl For All thing have such a ****ty conclusion for the WWF. N/A

Big Show vs. Mankind: Couple of interesting spots, but pretty boring, and a really lame ending where Mankind doesn't even seem to hit the chairs he gets chokeslammed through for the DQ. 1/2*

IC Title: Road Dogg (c) vs. Val Venis vs. Goldust vs. Ken Shamrock: Ah, I see that the period between WrestleMania XIV and XV is the point at which the IC Title was officially raped to death. This match features better ringwork than I remember Val Venis being capable of; all I really remembered of him was the unfunny gimmick that was there to appeal to the same crowd that preferred Austin Powers 2 to the original. Match is just okay overall, a little bit of decent action but a botched ending and not very interesting booking. *1/4

Kane vs. HHH: I love the "Pete Rose hates Kane" running gag. Great stair bump early on by Kane. Unfortunately that's the last interesting spot in the match for quite a while. A fair bit of aimless and boring action follows, but the endgame sequence at or after the time that Chyna comes out is reasonably interesting. Maybe a slight step up from the IC Title match. *1/4

Women's Title: Sable (c) vs. Tori: WTF at Tori's outfit. This was a ridiculous botchfest and maybe the worst women's match at Mania to this point. 1/4*

European Title: Shane McMahon (c) vs. X-Pac: I expected this to be better, since Shane was eventually a pretty decent worker (or at least a guy willing to do some big spots and take some big bumps), but he was really green here. Couple of alright spots here, but this is an overbooked mess. *3/4

Hell in a Cell: The Undertaker vs. The Big Boss Man: Corporate Boss Man in the black outfit was never at all interesting to me. He pretty much died when he left the blue shirt behind, went to WCW, and re-inhabited the Big Bubba gimmick. Some character updates that they did for the Attitude Era worked, but his did not. Taker's ministry character was pretty awesome - they REALLY managed to be able to turn him into a creepy evil guy again - but for whatever reason it didn't last long.

Match is very dull, with Undertaker doing what he could to try to carry things but only being able to do so much. 1/4*

WWF Title: The Rock (c) vs. Steve Austin: So they ran the guest referee angle all night just for the payoff to be Mike Chioda? Seems legit. I never know why they think that brawling in the crowd is a good idea; not only is it more dangerous for the participants, but it inhibits the action. After they got through the crowd to the top of the ramp though, the brawling got pretty solid. Once finally in the ring, the false finishes were sort of rushed and unbelievable. Certainly not the greatest booking I've seen. The first semi-believable near-fall was right after Foley cleared Vince out (the one shortly before the real fall). Good but not great; like Savage/DiBiase at WM IV, it wins match of the night honors by default. ***

Overall: Good God this was a terrible show. It didn't even "feel" big or anything; it felt like a monthly IYH PPV. Think WrestleMania 13, except that they replaced a five-star Austin match with a three-star Austin match. I'm legitimately putting this at the very bottom of the heap.

WrestleMania Rankings
1. WrestleMania III
2. WrestleMania X
3. WrestleMania VIII
4. WrestleMania XIV
5. WrestleMania VII
6. WrestleMania V
7. WrestleMania VI
8. WrestleMania XII
9. WrestleMania XI
10. WrestleMania IV
11. WrestleMania
12. WrestleMania 13
13. WrestleMania IX
14. WrestleMania 2
15. WrestleMania XV
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09-29-2014 , 11:18 PM
Woooow, a rock/Austin main event lands below WM 2?
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09-29-2014 , 11:31 PM
WM 2 was probably a little better for in-ring action and this show was just super annoying in every way. Rock vs. Austin at this one was WAY WAY worse than the main event they would have two years later. I mean it's splitting hairs, the overall takeaway is that people should go ahead and skip this show (except please don't, because I want to read other people's reviews).
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09-29-2014 , 11:32 PM
I mean nothing reaching even two stars before the main event is really wretched. Probably the most entertaining thing before the ME is watching Bart Gunn get knocked the **** out.
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09-30-2014 , 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
WM 2 was probably a little better for in-ring action and this show was just super annoying in every way. Rock vs. Austin at this one was WAY WAY worse than the main event they would have two years later. I mean it's splitting hairs, the overall takeaway is that people should go ahead and skip this show (except please don't, because I want to read other people's reviews).
well tbf that's around a top 10 match in company history. their match at backlash 99 was much much much better than WM 15.
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09-30-2014 , 07:45 AM
Wrestlemania XV review

I had never seen this before and didn't know what to expect.

It is fascinating that the heel/face lines are actually much more blurry here than they are today.

They wisely had a battle royal before Mania started on a Sunday Night show this time instead of as the opening match. The last two individuals left would form a team to face Jarrett and Owen for the titles. Jarrett drops probably his best line ever as an announcer during this battle royal: "That's what he does best in the ring: nothing" and is better as an announcer than he is on a promo. Unfortunately, the result leads to a very stupid tag team title match in which two random wrestlers are suddenly together as a team wrestling for the titles.

Owen/Jarrett vs. D LO/Test

Debra looks amazing for being almost 40; in the 90s I always thought she was too old, so I'm glad that the older I get the better old women look. The fans are mostly uninterested except for when Ivory and Debra get into a skirmish. The importance of the tag titles are buried in favor of this sideshow. No wonder the tag division was dying/dead for so long. At least it set up what surely was an epic Test/D LO feud. *

Goldust v Venis v Shamrock v Road Dogg

Road Dogg is piece of evidence number 32343490, 32343491, and 32343492 supporting the value of giving something inane for the fans to parrott. He might be the second most over wrestler on the show.

Four way matches are normally better than triple threat matches, because you don't have to have one person laying around for most of the match, often somehow hurt worse by the same moves just because it is a three way match. But this one is structured so that only two people are in the ring, and you can exit by tagging. When a wrestler is pinned, they are eliminated. But then rationally one would never want to be tagged in, because then one will be one of the last two left, and would have more energy and be less hurt than the opponent. This match is extremely difficult to get into because of this nonsense. It also buries the title massively. It would take awfully amazing action and storytelling to compensate for that, and the match doesn't have it. 0*

Gunn vs Snow vs Holly

This is the hardcore title, and is relatively new, so it didn't have a high value that could be decreased like the IC and tag titles did. Completely standard waste of my time triple threat hardcore match. 1/2*

Big Bossman vs Undertaker

The very first member of the Shield in action. These two were good athletes but the fans don't seem to care about this match. Surely part of the reason why is that they have nobody to root for. You don't have to have a traditional heel/face dynamic, but you do need at least one participant that the fans will be interested in getting behind.
Horrid even before the aftermath. But the aftermath deserves a special denunciation. How can I care about a wrestling match after somebody was hanged? What impact was this supposed to have? One of the worst moments in wrestling history. -4*

Bart Gunn vs Butterbean: Terrible idea executed terribly with terrible consequences. Huge burial of everybody involved in the Brawl for All just to get a novelty boxer on the show and imply to everybody that he is way tougher than the wrestlers are. -4*

Kane vs. HHH:

Pete Rose attacked Kane in a chicken suit.

HHH sneaks up on Kane by coming out of the crowd, which is pretty cool. It is amazing how Road Dogg is way more over than HHH, the leader of his stable. At least people care somewhat about this match. I am not one of those people. *

Shane McMahon vs X-Pac:

Shane eventually became a good worker. Not a good worker for a non-wrestler, but a really good worker. He isn't quite there yet here but this is one of the least awful matches on the PPV. It was probably proper to turn HHH because he is way less over than X-Pac or Road Dogg and just is much better as a heel, but since seemingly every match attempts 'shock value' one is desensitized to it. It is something best used sparingly. **

Sable vs. Tori 0*

Big Show Wight vs Mankind Foley

Forget the titles. What everybody wants to be is a special guest referee! In all seriousness the storytelling isn't that bad here. Or maybe it seems fine compared to the legendarily awful stuff scattered all over the place on this PPV. *

Austin Vs Rock

Jim Ross in here instead of Michael "Why did he ever get a job" Cole.

This is the cherry on top of the cyanide. When HBK comes out JR claims it is a shock, as if it wasn't already clear that the overriding principle of the whole show was shock value. Even to get to the point of having a regular ref we have to have a giant sideshow.

Watching this match after the rest of them puts you in a mindset that makes the match seem much worse. In fact I had to take a break before watching it as I just couldn't become involved in it. **

Two titles were massively buried on this PPV. Honestly the two belts have never recovered to what was done to them during this era to this day, although the tag belts are slowly being built back up to something useful. At the same time as they were making the belts useless, they were using more and more of them!? This **** isn't even entertaining in a so bad it is good way. It just deflates my interest in wrestling. This wasn't that long before Russo and Ferrara left for WCW, and I imagine they had reached close to a peak in influence at the time and were no longer being as thoroughly filtered.

If you want to make your job or going to the dentist seem more enjoyable, watch this PPV. If you have to get somebody you don't like a present, buy them this PPV. I had to post this early to get it over with.

This is the worst full PPV I've ever seen.

Tier 1=Must See=III>X>XIV
Tier 2=Glad I watched it=VIII>VII
Tier 3=Not completely awful=XIII>VI>V>IX>XI>XII
Tier 4=bottom feeders=IV>I>II>XV

Last edited by moorobot; 09-30-2014 at 07:54 AM.
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09-30-2014 , 09:32 PM
Glad to see I will not be in the minority here.
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09-30-2014 , 09:39 PM
Haha I appreciate that I buried the **** out of this show and then moorobot very clearly hated it quite a bit more than I did.
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09-30-2014 , 10:52 PM
I can't find the clip on YouTube but didn't Cole spoil the ending to the main event half way through the show?
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09-30-2014 , 11:05 PM
I didn't catch it if so.
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10-01-2014 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
I can't find the clip on YouTube but didn't Cole spoil the ending to the main event half way through the show?
I remember this too, I'll have to remember to watch for it.
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10-04-2014 , 08:58 PM
WrestleMania XV
March 28, 1999 - First Union Center, Philadelphia, PA


- Boyz II Men does America the Beautiful. Way to stay current, Vince. To put it in perspective, they broke out when I was in high school and hit their peak a couple of years later. I was two years out of university when this show aired.

- Maybe my all-time favourite video package opens things up, with Classy Freddie Blassie running down the history of the show and lending some gravitas to the proceedings. Little did we know this would be the high point. Michael Cole makes his Mania debut on commentary subbing for JR, who was stricken with his second bout of Bells Palsy. Fifteen years later he still sounds just as bad.

Hardcore title, triple threat: Billy Gunn [c] vs. Al Snow vs. Hardcore Holly 1/2*
This is a Vince Russo special, as Road Dogg had been in the Hardcore title picture for the last few months (and was doing a pretty good job with it) and Gunn was in a program with IC champion Ken Shamrock. So Russo decided to SWERVE~! everyone by switching their programs before Mania as if it didn't make a difference. The 24/7 rule had not yet been introduced, so this is just a normal match. The most over guys here aren't even in the match -- the crowd sings along with the Road Dogg during Billy's entrance, and chant "Let's Go Flyers" when a hockey stick gets introduced. This was nothing worthwhile, the Hardcore title was still new and they really hadn't settled into a rhythm with these matches yet. Plus, of course, Billy Gunn was prominently involved.

Tag team titles: Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett [c] vs. D-Lo Brown & Test *
Another Russo cliche makes its Mania debut here -- wacky tag team partners who hate each other! In this case, Test and D-Lo won a battle royal on Sunday Night Heat to determine the champions' opponents. Heaven forbid we build up a decent tag team title match for the biggest show of the year. This felt like it was going at half-speed the entire time (particularly D-Lo, who looked awful), and then we get an argument outside the ring and boom, match is over just like that. Nice finish at least, with an Owen missile dropkick leading into a Jarrett bridge for the pin. Plus we get the start of that epic Test/D-Lo feud I'm sure everyone was clamouring for.

Brawl For All match: Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean
Bart Gunn guarantees in a prematch video package that this will be very exciting. Before I can finish cleaning up from the spit take that caused, Bart gets knocked the **** OUT by Butterbean. No rating for boxing matches, but believe me, this was hilariously awful. The only highlight for me was Gorilla Monsoon's last appearance. even though it was apparent he didn't have much time left.

Big Show vs. Mankind DUD
Winner of this will referee the main event. As if that match needs anything else added. I'd forgotten how bad Big Show was when he first came in. Another nothing match with a crap finish, as Show chokeslams Mankind through two chairs in the ring (kind of) for the DQ that helps nobody. And then we get another five minutes of Vince laying into Show for getting himself DQed and then getting laid out as a result (another shocking SWERVE~!). This whole sequence played out like a standard Raw segment.

IC title, four corners elimination: Road Dogg [c] vs. Val Venis vs. Goldust vs. Ken Shamrock *1/2
All four of these guys are current/former IC champions. And if you remembered that only Goldust was a former champ before the LAST Mania, you'd easily realize that the belt was being passed around like Sunny on a coke binge. Of course, the only guy not involved in the angle surrounding this match is the champion. Thanks, Russo. These guys were trying hard, but every finish in the match was super ****ty (double countout on Val and Shamrock, followed by a rollup off a powerslam attempt by Road Dogg). Even worse, Goldust would beat Road Dogg for the title the very next night, flushing the belt down the toilet one more time.

Triple H vs. Kane *
The Pete Rose gag was funny, but with no TitanTron, the live crowd had no clue what was actually going on. Teddy Long is refereeing, I'm sure trying to suppress every instinct to make this a tag team match. Slow, plodding match. There were a couple of decent spots, but this was mostly just there to set up the angle to follow, otherwise why do you book a DQ finish in a blood feud at WrestleMania? Chyna of course nonsensically turns on Kane to rejoin Triple H in another SWERVE~!, but that'll at least send the fans home happy, right?

Women's title: Sable [c] vs. Tori -**
Yeah, I think we can definitely thank Luna for Sable looking so good last year. Absolutely godawful work, throw in a ref bump and a Nicole Bass run-in and you've got a complete trainwreck. Can't imagine this show getting any worse (lol, yeah right).

European title: Shane McMahon [c] vs. X-Pac **1/2
Crowd is amped to start for maybe the first time tonight, they want to see X-Pac take Shane apart. And in a saner, Russo-free universe, that might be what they would've gotten. Good match, easily the best on the show so far. Shane always seems to rise to the occasion and make everyone forget he's a non-wrestler, and X-Pac put forth a good effort as well. No huge spots, but this was well-worked enough that they didn't need them. But all of it was secondary to the next big SWERVE~!, as HHH and Chyna come down and erase everything from 20 minutes ago with a Pedigree on X-Pac. Crowd chants for HBK to no avail, but Kane comes down to try to avenge his loss earlier. **** YOU SIDEWAYS, RUSSO. The turn did end up launching HHH into the big time, but on this show, it's just the crowning moment of a night of meaningless matches and swerving for swerving's sake.

Hell in a Cell: Undertaker vs. Big Bossman -**1/2
Oh, good lord. I mean, heel vs. heel in a Mania semi-main is a horrible idea to start with, but make it two guys who aren't exactly the most mobile guys to begin with, put them in a cell where fans have been conditioned to expect nothing but thrilling matches, and have them put on the most basic, rudimentary match you can think of, and you have a recipe for disaster. The crowd openly turned on this one, and for good reason, as they were given absolutely nothing to care about. And as if this ****show didn't go far enough, the Brood comes out at the end to hang the Bossman from the top of the cell. I'm sure that won't be found distasteful by anyone. This would also lead to the Higher Power angle, which went...well, you know. And if you don't, you don't want to. Easy bottom 5 Mania match to this point.

WWF title: The Rock [c] vs. Steve Austin ***
JR comes out to announce, thank god. JR at 50% is still better than Cole at his very best. Since it wouldn't be a Russo match without some kind of angle, Vince comes out to referee, but Shawn Michaels as commissioner overrules him brings out...Mike Chioda to ref. Awesome payoff for all the crap leading up to this. Austin with of course the biggest pop of the night. They decide to start with basically the same brawling outside sequence that Hart/Austin at XIII started with, but much longer (nearly ten minutes) and not as well. When they got back in the ring, it seemed like they went right to the ending, and edited out most of the middle section. As a result, it felt very disjointed. OF COURSE there are ref bumps, several of them, all in service of seeing Mick Foley make the heroic comeback (SWERVE~!), knock out Vince and eventually count the Rock down to give Austin his second world title. Decent match, but they'd have much better -- one a month from now, and of course one two years from now. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Overall: 2/10
This was just abominable. I've seen episodes of Raw that were better than this. The problem with Vince Russo is that he may put on compelling weekly TV -- and even that's somewhat debatable -- but you pay for it with PPVs like this. Survivor Series 98, Royal Rumble 99 and this show were all disappointments to varying degrees, and this was the worst of the bunch. So the question is, is it worse than WrestleMania IX? Well, the wrestling was worse, the announcing was worse, the storylines were incomprehensible, and it certainly felt like less of a WrestleMania. So, to quote the champion, oh hell yeah. Worst Mania of all time, and I don't see that ever changing.

Ratings so far:
III - 9.5
X - 8.5
XIV - 8.0
VIII - 7.0
VII - 6.0
VI - 5.25
V - 5.0
XII - 4.75
I - 4.5
13 - 4.5
XI - 4.0
2 - 3.5
IV - 3.0
IX - 2.5
XV - 2.0
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10-04-2014 , 09:02 PM
They edited out Cole spoiling the results of the main event from the home video. A quick Google search confirms it though, he told everyone to be sure to tune in to the Home Shopping Network after the show for an exclusive interview with the new WWF champion, Stone Cold Steve Austin.
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10-04-2014 , 09:53 PM
I for some reason thought I was going to be a negative outlier on this show. Funny thing is that my review may have been the least negative.
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10-04-2014 , 10:09 PM
I looked at the Raw ratings for early to mid 1999 and they are insane; 6.0+ average, over 8 on a night Nitro didn't air (for comparison, Raw episodes now do a little under a 3). I don't even want to watch the Raw episodes from this era because I can't risk my sanity sitting through more of this. I'll just attribute the high ratings to the star power of Austin and the Rock as well as the quality that existed from 96-98.
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10-04-2014 , 10:43 PM
The AEpodcast take on this show is really good. They **** all over it as much as you guys have.
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10-04-2014 , 10:46 PM
It really was basically a masterful showcase of everything that was wrong with the Attitude Era and almost none of what was great about it.

I actually haven't seen every Mania yet, but like True North I think it's going to be difficult to come in underneath this one when you consider that at least the PG era has shown that ringwork has inarguably evolved even if they've lost their way on other aspects of putting out a great product.
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10-05-2014 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moorobot
I looked at the Raw ratings for early to mid 1999 and they are insane; 6.0+ average, over 8 on a night Nitro didn't air (for comparison, Raw episodes now do a little under a 3). I don't even want to watch the Raw episodes from this era because I can't risk my sanity sitting through more of this. I'll just attribute the high ratings to the star power of Austin and the Rock as well as the quality that existed from 96-98.
Quick note on TV ratings, you can't really compare ratings from back then to those of today. Nothing gets the same ratings anymore (well, except major sporting events) because of the massive expansion of channels via satellite TV, expanded cable, etc.

Last edited by antidan444; 10-05-2014 at 12:31 AM. Reason: My point is, a 3.0 today is probably equal to a 5.0 back then.
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10-06-2014 , 07:38 PM


I'll forget to do this if I wait until after the football game starts, so...WrestleMania 2000 is open for business. Glad we all didn't die of AIDS during WM XV week.
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