Ok so we all know it is fake but back in the day it seems like people used to make more out of every move.

Watching the Curt Hennig tribute thread (courtesy of LKJ), they even sold punches like they were real. Now someone can get dropped on the steel steps and carry on.

At what point did wrestling become less real (in as much as something fake can be less real)?

Was it a gradual thing or was there a point when they just stopped selling most things?

I remember that if someone hit their finisher 90% that was it, the match was done. Now people can kick out after being hit by multiple finishers.

Part of me likes that you never know when the match will end as someone hitting a finisher does not mean it is over, but on the over hand it devalues their moves and makes them kind of meaningless.

Could we go back to more of the old style wrestling and have it accepted by people or would they find it boring?

Is their a middle ground between classic wrestling and spot fests like money in the back? Can they coexist?

that would be hulk hogan v andre the giant circa 1986

i lost all faith in humanity watching that injustice indignantly, fortunately when i didnt calm down it was explained to me that it was all fake, i regained faith in humanity, and stopped watching wrestling

The finisher kickout thing could be rolled back successfully pretty easily, but it's not going to happen. It's just too easy of a crutch for lazy bookers to lean on.

In the 50s wrestlers from the 30s were complaining that it was unrealistic to use the ropes to perform moves. So in that sense wrestling has becoming less real for a long, long time.

But despite that, during times that the business is doing well, wrestlers and wrestling writers and announcers act in a way that helps the audience to suspend disbelief. Yes, the big action scene in the sci fi movie is utterly unrealistic, but it is still better to not have the boom mic showing. It is still better for the set to be designed in a way that gives it the appearance of something that isn't a movie set. You want people to forget that it is "just a movie" and get wrapped up in it.

That has been missing in wrestling for a long time. Some members of 'creative' for both WWE and TNA seem to want to make it a point to shove it in your face that it isn't real. "It's just wrestling" is what they say.

Any of these moments:

Olympics style wrestling is boring. No one would watch.

Do you have the video of the Battle Royal where 8 guys ganged up on Andre the Giant and threw the giant over the top rope? TIA

When Vince started his quest for domination.

i think i knew this but somewhat forgot....

vince changed the classification from sports to entertainment to avoid some government fee in the northeast (new york? new jersey?)

and i think once it crossed that line that all was lost for any kayfabe.... basically morphed into more analogous to a rock concert in mid-late 80's.

hard to believe how much you acted like it was real even though you knew for sure it wasn't.... but you know TV drama shows are fake but people still have strong feelings for characters

hard to believe how much guys used to do things like arm bars and full nelsons. not sure i've seen those in years.

i mentioned vince and changing classification from sports to entertainment...

but i'd also add the internet took so much mystery out of wrestling too.

When I was 11 and my new mate from high school pointed out that almost every punch coincided with a stamp to the canvas

When this bombshell dropped....



And when gifs were invented....

UFC didn't help. Showed with split second opening you could almost kill someone. People realized no one would fight like pro wrestling

Kdub, thx for gif.. Great stuff

Think some people are misunderstanding the topic. Its not about believing it is real. It was more about the wrestlers at least acting like the moves are real or even having consistancy.

Even though we knew it was fake I feel like back in the day thier work would let you suspend belief while watching. Like you dont sit in a move and go lol not real even though you know it is not.

Survivor series was a good example. You could almost belive that dolp was able to fight back and pull moves out of nowhere. Then all of a sudden rollins is out for 5 mins, wtf put him out for so long? It was dumb.

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Well it would pretty much have to be at some point before Hulking up was a thing.

I think the whole death of kayfabe and style of fighting changing is basically the same thing... One couldn't live without the other... As we both said you used to care so much even though you knew it's fake. Just like people cryend at end of "of mice and men" even though it's clearly fake

The actual grappling changed around same time as it became more rock concert-esque and merchandising-oriented and at same time vince went national...so 1985ish?