oh he definitely was lol

but its still a fun discussion for me so whatever

Meltzer ratings:

Backlash
Baron Corbin vs. Apollo Crews - **1/2
Women's Title Match - **1/4
The Usos vs. The Hype Bros - **1/2
The Miz (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***1/4
Bray Wyatt vs. Kane - **3/4
The Usos vs. Rhyno and Heath Slater - ***
Dean Ambrose (c) vs. AJ Styles - ****1/4

CWC Finale
Gran Metalik vs. Zack Sabre, Jr. - ***3/4
Kota Ibushi vs. TJ Perkins - ****1/2
DIY vs. Cedric Alexander and Noam Dar - ***3/4
Tournament Final - ****1/4

Women's title match rating is pretty harsh. I know it had that awful Nattie/Naomi spot, but the match was pretty decent otherwise. Ibushi/Perkins was incredible. Glad it got 4.5.

****1/4 for Styles-Ambrose is much too generous. Granted that it got turned around to a good match by the end, but I wouldn't have considered going **** or better for it.

Not sure if anyone on this board even saw every match on the card at No Mercy. I certainly didn't, and there were no posts about the last match.

Here are Meltzer's ratings:

Hype Bros and American Alpha vs. Ascension and Vaudevillains 2.5
AJ Styles (c) vs. John Cena vs. Dean Ambrose 3.75
Nikki Bella vs. Carmella 1.75
Slater/Rhyno (c) vs. The Usos 2.75
Baron Corbin vs. Jack Swagger 2.75
Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz (c) 4.5
Naomi vs. Alexa Bliss 1
Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton 2.5

Really only fully watched the WHC and IC matches, and those ratings seem reasonable. I'd probably be more like ***1/4 for the triple threat and ****1/4 for the IC Title.

Saw just bits and pieces (at most) of the rest of the matches, so no real opinion on those.

Thanks by the way, always appreciate when people post the Meltzer ratings.

LOL at anything higher than 1 star for the "main event"

I don't think anyone here actually watched all of the HiaC matches. Here's Meltzer's ratings:

Sin Cara & Lince Dorado & Cedric Alexander vs Tony Nese & Drew Gulak & Ariya Daivari - 3.5
Roman Reigns vs Rusev - 3.25
Bayley vs Dana Brooke - 1.5
Gallows & Anderson vs Enzo & Cass - 2
Kevin Owens vs Seth Rollins - 4
Brian Kendrick vs T.J Perkins - 1.75
Sheamus & Cesaro vs The New Day - 2.75
Charlotte vs Sasha Banks -2.75

Natalya/Becky (Battleground) > Charlotte/Sasha (HIAC)

Meltzer is a strange fellow

I saw pretty much the whole show, but not the pre-show match.

Fine ratings: Reigns-Rusev, Bayley-Dana, Sheamus/Cesaro-New Day
Mildly underrated: Kendrick-Perkins
Underrated: Charlotte-Sasha
Overrated: Owens-Rollins

Didn't really pay any attention during Club vs. Enzo/Cass because it was Club vs. Enzo/Cass, so no opinion there.

While obviously saying natalya/becky > hiac is wrong, I think it's a lot more due to loloverrated on the first than underrating on the second.

There were some fun and sweet things in the hiac match for sure. But it had a lot of problems:

- The entire prematch sequence makes no sense on any level. It was only a handful of weeks ago that Rusev/Roman had a title match that started with a beatdown and they ruled the match off. So it makes no sense for Charlotte to do all of those things (ruining her title match) and it makes no sense to suddenly tease a title change on it when "unable to compete in this match so its a title change" is something that never happens. It didn't happen in Rusev/Roman. It didn't happen when Becky got hurt and they pushed the match back. The entire prematch adventure makes zero logical sense at any level.

- That's even ignoring the fact that the whole purpose of it - to recreate Foley's stretcher spot - didn't resonate at all. Not one person expected the match to be called off. We were all just waiting for her to get up. You can't recreate a "holy **** that crazy sob is up" reaction when nobody expects the match to be over. And you can't make people expect the match to be "over" when you put someone through an announcers table which is something we see every other week and never calls for a stretcher or serious injuy.

- The ending was flat. It was similar to the end of Lesnar/Ambrose where you just sat there and said "oh, is that it? ok then". The ending of a hell in a cell match is throwing her onto a table and hitting her quasi-finisher (its been hit and not won many matches). It's ... fine ... I guess. It's not something that makes you go OH **** ITS OVER though.

- Multiple botches throughout with the tables didn't help




Like, there were a lot of fun spots and at least some aggression in there, but 2.75 seems pretty close to right to me

of course if you consider the match bell to bell i think it deserves a higher rating
i just didnt like the prematch stuff at all (though thats dislike of the booking/creative people and not on the performers)


owens/rollins was too high, though i did enjoy it

Calling it the "Mankind stretcher spot" is hiding the fact that they do the spot more often than that. There's Bryan in WM 30 and Roman in this year's Royal Rumble, just off the top of my head.

I will die on the hill that the ending to Sasha/Charlotte was a very good one, but I suppose the WWE is to blame for stupidly raising the bar way too high on what actually leads to an expected finish in a match at this point.

I disagree. I think that the whole beginning of that match was like a poorly executed homage to KotR 98. It felt like they were going for Foley lite. They teased going to the top of the cage only to do a much saner bump through the table. Then had Charlotte go in the ring to pose as victor similar to how Taker stood on top of the cage while they took Foley out.

It just felt like they were trying to pay tribute to what a lot of people feel was the best HIAC match with the the first female HIAC match. Whatever they were going for the execution was very poor and not really necessary.

Fair enough. But Sasha coming off the stretcher to compete is straight out of WM30.

NXT TAKEOVER: TORONTO

Bobby Roode vs Tye Dillinger: Great opener. Crowd was predictably insane. Roode does everything so smoothly. He's kinda like Orton in that way, only (at least so far) without the boring downsides. ***3/4

Authors of Pain vs TM61: I really think Authors of Pain are going to be megastars. Great use of both of their strengths. ***3/4

The Revival vs DIY: Even better than their last match. The Revival are so good at all of the little things. The best old school heel team in a long time. ****3/4

Asuka vs Mickie James: I dunno, this felt a little flat. I might be being unfair because there was no way in hell Asuka was losing, the last match was a MOTY candidate, and I feel like Mickie got way too much offense in. Also this was about the point where the crowd started to bug me. Maybe I'd feel differently if I watched this as a standalone. **1/4

Shinsuke Nakamura vs Samoa Joe: I thought Nakamura did too much no selling of the leg early, which is really my only big complaint. I actually thought that Nakamura might kick out of that finishing sequence, which would have been absurd. Pretty surprising result that I actually liked. Joe was great here. I hope he shows up on Raw and does the Kevin Owens thing, splitting time between NXT and the main roster. ****

This happened in nearly every match in Japan. It's just something Shinskay fans look past. meh.

Meltzer ratings:

NXT Takeover Toronto
Bobby Roode vs. Tye Dillinger ***3/4
Authors of Pain vs. TM-61 ***
DIY vs. The Revival ****1/2
Asuka vs. Mickie James ***1/2
Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Samoa Joe ****1/4

Survivor Series
6-man cruiserweights ***
Luke Harper vs. Kane *1/2
Women's Survivor Series Match **3/4
The Miz vs. Sami Zayn ***1/4
Tag Team Survivor Series Match ****1/4
Brian Kendrick vs. Kalisto ***1/4
Men's Survivor Series Match ****1/2
Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar N/A

Seems quite high on the tag match

Actually seems about a star high on everything except the main Survivor Series match.

Agreed. Also disappointed that the NXT tag title match didn't get 4.75

WHy are meltzers ratings the gold standard?

They're not. They often suck. Yet for some reason I'm always interested.

I don't think they're the gold standard and I doubt many people think that. I think that it's just that he's the most publicized person that does it and it's a pretty good meter of the best matches to go back and watch.