Official WrestleMania Thread

[Bedreviter]

Originally Posted by Jack Bando

Edge is awesome right now. The insane look on his face with the pre-spear, his lackeys (which is a kind of stable),his mic work. How does he work better as a face?

Heels can draw big if booked right. (Austin June 96-March 97 and to a lesser extent The Two Man Power Trip, Early DX, Evolution, HHH whenever he's a heel, and nWo)

Where did I say that every wrestler is better as face, or that I think Edge would be better as face? WWE does better right now on merchandise than ever before and their biggest seller now is John Cena, turning him and turning away a huge portion of the kids does not sound like a great idea.

Who do you think sells most t-shirts, Edge, Orton or John Cena?

[SixT4]

I ordered Wrestlemania last year.

If I had a choice between it and Frank Shamrock vs Cung Le I'd pick the latter easily. I may not even bother downloading Wrestlemania the next day.

[Jack Bando]

Bed, the top part was when Russ said that Edge is better as a face.

I'd think they did better in merch in 98-01 then now, but I don't have the numbers.

I was saying top people in WWE in their best time period were all heels at first. Austin was huge before he turned, and people cheered him as a heel. HHH/HBL were big as heels and DX merch sold well. The Rock first became big as a heel and was booed like Cena as a face. In WCW the nWo was the top sellers, all heels.

Cena needs to either be changed (no more superman fights, and add some moves) or turn. Shortrun merchandise sales are good for Cena, but if everyone hates him, the company will suffer in the future. I didn't bother getting any of his PPV's when he was champ (except the big 4) cause it was all "The Champ is Here!" "Orton loves guy's asses!" *Cena gets beat up the first 5 minutes, sitdown suplex-5KS-FU-STFU-Tap*

[Pudge714]

Originally Posted by Bedreviter

WWE do about 300 shows a year, divided on 2 brand which would put the total at about 150 shows on each brand. Dont think any of the wrestlers are close to 200 matches a year.

I don't know a good way to compare it to other sports, but think about how many fights boxers/ufc guys have a year and some guys are fighting 50-100 times a year with no breaks unless they get injured.

[samjjones]

Originally Posted by Jack Bando

Bed, the top part was when Russ said that Edge is better as a face.

I'd think they did better in merch in 98-01 then now, but I don't have the numbers.

I was saying top people in WWE in their best time period were all heels at first. Austin was huge before he turned, and people cheered him as a heel. HHH/HBL were big as heels and DX merch sold well. The Rock first became big as a heel and was booed like Cena as a face. In WCW the nWo was the top sellers, all heels.

Cena needs to either be changed (no more superman fights, and add some moves) or turn. Shortrun merchandise sales are good for Cena, but if everyone hates him, the company will suffer in the future. I didn't bother getting any of his PPV's when he was champ (except the big 4) cause it was all "The Champ is Here!" "Orton loves guy's asses!" *Cena gets beat up the first 5 minutes, sitdown suplex-5KS-FU-STFU-Tap*

Hogan had a stellar 20 year career off of punch, body slam, hulk up, big boot, and leg drop.

[Bedreviter]

Originally Posted by Jack Bando

I was saying top people in WWE in their best time period were all heels at first. Austin was huge before he turned, and people cheered him as a heel. HHH/HBL were big as heels and DX merch sold well. The Rock first became big as a heel and was booed like Cena as a face. In WCW the nWo was the top sellers, all heels.

Yeah, I missed that he was responding to someone claiming that Edge was better as face, I thought it was in response to my comment. My bad.

Cena was a heel too when he started gaining popularity, and grew even more in popularity after the face turn.

I just dont think Cena will function as well as heel as he does as face, and I think there is little incentive for Vince to consider it at the moment. I wouldnt mind seeing heel-Cena, but I believe that the younger crowd (which is very important for WWE) sure wants to keep him face.

Cena is Vinces golden boy at the moment, and he probably sees a new hogan in him. Cena is the only wrestler that regularly appears on televised non-wrestling shows now, and I guess vince prefer him to be a positive face of the organization in stead of having a cheating mean heel to be the figure that the public is exposed to.

The best wrestlers arent necessarily the most popular, and wrestlers can stay huge with limited move set. Steamboat and Randy Savage had what might have been the best match in WWEs history on WM3, what everyone remembers from WM3 is how "superman-eat-your-vitamins-and-say-your- prayers-leg drop-Hulk Hogan" beat Andre the Giant.

[Bedreviter]

Originally Posted by Pudge714

I don't know a good way to compare it to other sports, but think about how many fights boxers/ufc guys have a year and some guys are fighting 50-100 times a year with no breaks unless they get injured.

Yeah, Im not saying that wrestlers dont have an insane workload. And Im all for giving everyone a healthy schedule. But giving everyone December off isnt the way to go, rather give everyone a month off at different times of the year, which is what they usually do.

And a lot of the matches the wrestlers have are shorter matches that don´t really take too much out of them. I guess the traveling and being on the road so much often is harder than the actual matches.

[Jack Bando]

Originally Posted by Bedreviter

Yeah, I missed that he was responding to someone claiming that Edge was better as face, I thought it was in response to my comment. My bad.

Cena was a heel too when he started gaining popularity, and grew even more in popularity after the face turn.

I just dont think Cena will function as well as heel as he does as face, and I think there is little incentive for Vince to consider it at the moment. I wouldnt mind seeing heel-Cena, but I believe that the younger crowd (which is very important for WWE) sure wants to keep him face.

Cena is Vinces golden boy at the moment, and he probably sees a new hogan in him. Cena is the only wrestler that regularly appears on televised non-wrestling shows now, and I guess vince prefer him to be a positive face of the organization in stead of having a cheating mean heel to be the figure that the public is exposed to.

The best wrestlers arent necessarily the most popular, and wrestlers can stay huge with limited move set. Steamboat and Randy Savage had what might have been the best match in WWEs history on WM3, what everyone remembers from WM3 is how "superman-eat-your-vitamins-and-say-your- prayers-leg drop-Hulk Hogan" beat Andre the Giant.

I just think the modern wrestling fan is more finicky than the old one. Hogan's 3 moves can't cut it, and a Backlund/Hogan/Sammartino mutli year title reign would never work now.

I agree that each fan has a different taste (I watched from 95-00 and was blown away more by Mysterio vs Malenko on Nitro then any nWo Hogan main event, and I got back into the WWE in 2005 not because of Cena-Angle but becasue of the Mickie James story), but WWE only caters toward a vary narrow range atm.


Can't wait for the event though

[Five-Star]

"...and now for the benefit of those with flash photography.."

Sorry, with all the talk of Edge as a heel or baby, that line still cracks me up.

As for Russ' great explanation points about what the WWE should do; I do disagree with getting rid of No Way Out. It starts as the wrapping up of any Royal Rumble story lines and starts as the jumping off of the WM lines. Also, one of my favorite matches happened at No Way Out, Foley vs. HHH Hell-in-a-Cell. I do agree they need to lower the amount of PPV's, Great American Bash, Taboo Tuesday, and One Night Stand immediately jump off the page at me. Armageddon may have some merit to being cut as well. It always seemed to me to be the black sheep of the other PPVs anyway.

I'll admit to not having seen a Diva match in a while because the last one I watched was just so painful. There were people out wrestling that had no talent and couldn't fake their way through the match. Yeah it's great to watch them and they look great and but the wrestling talent couldn't fill a thimble. Hopefully it's changed and I would love for someone to clue me in on the direction those matches have taken. If the quality is better, I'll watch. I guess my point is to take the Women's division more seriously. They need more matches like the Trish vs. Victoria (one of my favorite Divas) vs. Lita. All three had wrestling talent and they could put on some matches that were watchable.

What are people's thoughts on the Draft?

[Russ M.]

Originally Posted by Jack Bando

Bed, the top part was when Russ said that Edge is better as a face.

Huh?

[Case Closed]

lol

[Bedreviter]

I agree that most wrestling-fans today demands more from matches than they used to. But the casual fan, and kids often watch because they like the simpler things. And they love seeing the good guy winning against all odds, and love to root for Mr. Good Guy John Cena.

Cena can have awesome matches when needed (last years 60 minutes long match against HBK on RAW might have been the best WWE match all year), but the simplified style seems to get the job done for him. He is the most popular wrestler at the moment, has been for some time now and I dont think turning him is worth the risk. Making him use more moves and more technical/difficult moves will probably increase the risk of injury, something that the WWE wont risk.

Look at Hogans matches when he was in Japan, he had more moves and was a bit more technical than he ever was in WWF or WCW, but thats not what the casual fan wants. Vince insists on calling it "sports entertainment" and "Superstars" because the drama, the acting and the psychology is probably more important than the actual wrestling often.

[Jack Bando]

Originally Posted by Russ M.

Huh?

By Russ, I meant Dids.

[NoTalentTool]

If there is any possible way to get rid of the "What?!" comments from the crowd repeating over and over after someone says a sentence, please do it. Immediately. It was an awful gimmick at inception and is just horrendous now.

[LegendofLink]

Used to be a big WWF/E fan back in the day but don't really follow much anymore, maybe a raw here or there, but I have a question for those who know a lot about all the happenings. I never really understood what happened with the rock, he was like at the top of the business and really popular then he just bounces and it seems like he's never returned? Did something happen backstage to drive him away, did the company not want him anymore, did he just get tired of wrestling and decide he wants to become an actor instead? I mean I can understand if he just wanted to do movies but it seems strange that he's never returned for a cameo or anything and that he just up and left when he was at the height of popularity.