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Old 03-29-2008, 03:48 PM   #76
Bedreviter
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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Edge is awesome right now. The insane look on his face with the pre-spear, his lackeys (which is a kind of stable),his mic work. How does he work better as a face?

Heels can draw big if booked right. (Austin June 96-March 97 and to a lesser extent The Two Man Power Trip, Early DX, Evolution, HHH whenever he's a heel, and nWo)
Where did I say that every wrestler is better as face, or that I think Edge would be better as face? WWE does better right now on merchandise than ever before and their biggest seller now is John Cena, turning him and turning away a huge portion of the kids does not sound like a great idea.

Who do you think sells most t-shirts, Edge, Orton or John Cena?
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:00 PM   #77
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

I ordered Wrestlemania last year.

If I had a choice between it and Frank Shamrock vs Cung Le I'd pick the latter easily. I may not even bother downloading Wrestlemania the next day.
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:11 PM   #78
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

Bed, the top part was when Russ said that Edge is better as a face.

I'd think they did better in merch in 98-01 then now, but I don't have the numbers.

I was saying top people in WWE in their best time period were all heels at first. Austin was huge before he turned, and people cheered him as a heel. HHH/HBL were big as heels and DX merch sold well. The Rock first became big as a heel and was booed like Cena as a face. In WCW the nWo was the top sellers, all heels.

Cena needs to either be changed (no more superman fights, and add some moves) or turn. Shortrun merchandise sales are good for Cena, but if everyone hates him, the company will suffer in the future. I didn't bother getting any of his PPV's when he was champ (except the big 4) cause it was all "The Champ is Here!" "Orton loves guy's asses!" *Cena gets beat up the first 5 minutes, sitdown suplex-5KS-FU-STFU-Tap*
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:27 PM   #79
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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WWE do about 300 shows a year, divided on 2 brand which would put the total at about 150 shows on each brand. Dont think any of the wrestlers are close to 200 matches a year.
I don't know a good way to compare it to other sports, but think about how many fights boxers/ufc guys have a year and some guys are fighting 50-100 times a year with no breaks unless they get injured.
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Old 03-29-2008, 08:32 PM   #80
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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Bed, the top part was when Russ said that Edge is better as a face.

I'd think they did better in merch in 98-01 then now, but I don't have the numbers.

I was saying top people in WWE in their best time period were all heels at first. Austin was huge before he turned, and people cheered him as a heel. HHH/HBL were big as heels and DX merch sold well. The Rock first became big as a heel and was booed like Cena as a face. In WCW the nWo was the top sellers, all heels.

Cena needs to either be changed (no more superman fights, and add some moves) or turn. Shortrun merchandise sales are good for Cena, but if everyone hates him, the company will suffer in the future. I didn't bother getting any of his PPV's when he was champ (except the big 4) cause it was all "The Champ is Here!" "Orton loves guy's asses!" *Cena gets beat up the first 5 minutes, sitdown suplex-5KS-FU-STFU-Tap*
Hogan had a stellar 20 year career off of punch, body slam, hulk up, big boot, and leg drop.
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:36 PM   #81
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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I was saying top people in WWE in their best time period were all heels at first. Austin was huge before he turned, and people cheered him as a heel. HHH/HBL were big as heels and DX merch sold well. The Rock first became big as a heel and was booed like Cena as a face. In WCW the nWo was the top sellers, all heels.
Yeah, I missed that he was responding to someone claiming that Edge was better as face, I thought it was in response to my comment. My bad.

Cena was a heel too when he started gaining popularity, and grew even more in popularity after the face turn.

I just dont think Cena will function as well as heel as he does as face, and I think there is little incentive for Vince to consider it at the moment. I wouldnt mind seeing heel-Cena, but I believe that the younger crowd (which is very important for WWE) sure wants to keep him face.

Cena is Vinces golden boy at the moment, and he probably sees a new hogan in him. Cena is the only wrestler that regularly appears on televised non-wrestling shows now, and I guess vince prefer him to be a positive face of the organization in stead of having a cheating mean heel to be the figure that the public is exposed to.

The best wrestlers arent necessarily the most popular, and wrestlers can stay huge with limited move set. Steamboat and Randy Savage had what might have been the best match in WWEs history on WM3, what everyone remembers from WM3 is how "superman-eat-your-vitamins-and-say-your- prayers-leg drop-Hulk Hogan" beat Andre the Giant.
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:43 PM   #82
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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I don't know a good way to compare it to other sports, but think about how many fights boxers/ufc guys have a year and some guys are fighting 50-100 times a year with no breaks unless they get injured.
Yeah, Im not saying that wrestlers dont have an insane workload. And Im all for giving everyone a healthy schedule. But giving everyone December off isnt the way to go, rather give everyone a month off at different times of the year, which is what they usually do.

And a lot of the matches the wrestlers have are shorter matches that don┤t really take too much out of them. I guess the traveling and being on the road so much often is harder than the actual matches.
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Old 03-29-2008, 11:27 PM   #83
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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Yeah, I missed that he was responding to someone claiming that Edge was better as face, I thought it was in response to my comment. My bad.

Cena was a heel too when he started gaining popularity, and grew even more in popularity after the face turn.

I just dont think Cena will function as well as heel as he does as face, and I think there is little incentive for Vince to consider it at the moment. I wouldnt mind seeing heel-Cena, but I believe that the younger crowd (which is very important for WWE) sure wants to keep him face.

Cena is Vinces golden boy at the moment, and he probably sees a new hogan in him. Cena is the only wrestler that regularly appears on televised non-wrestling shows now, and I guess vince prefer him to be a positive face of the organization in stead of having a cheating mean heel to be the figure that the public is exposed to.

The best wrestlers arent necessarily the most popular, and wrestlers can stay huge with limited move set. Steamboat and Randy Savage had what might have been the best match in WWEs history on WM3, what everyone remembers from WM3 is how "superman-eat-your-vitamins-and-say-your- prayers-leg drop-Hulk Hogan" beat Andre the Giant.
I just think the modern wrestling fan is more finicky than the old one. Hogan's 3 moves can't cut it, and a Backlund/Hogan/Sammartino mutli year title reign would never work now.

I agree that each fan has a different taste (I watched from 95-00 and was blown away more by Mysterio vs Malenko on Nitro then any nWo Hogan main event, and I got back into the WWE in 2005 not because of Cena-Angle but becasue of the Mickie James story), but WWE only caters toward a vary narrow range atm.


Can't wait for the event though
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Old 03-29-2008, 11:55 PM   #84
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

"...and now for the benefit of those with flash photography.."

Sorry, with all the talk of Edge as a heel or baby, that line still cracks me up.

As for Russ' great explanation points about what the WWE should do; I do disagree with getting rid of No Way Out. It starts as the wrapping up of any Royal Rumble story lines and starts as the jumping off of the WM lines. Also, one of my favorite matches happened at No Way Out, Foley vs. HHH Hell-in-a-Cell. I do agree they need to lower the amount of PPV's, Great American Bash, Taboo Tuesday, and One Night Stand immediately jump off the page at me. Armageddon may have some merit to being cut as well. It always seemed to me to be the black sheep of the other PPVs anyway.

I'll admit to not having seen a Diva match in a while because the last one I watched was just so painful. There were people out wrestling that had no talent and couldn't fake their way through the match. Yeah it's great to watch them and they look great and but the wrestling talent couldn't fill a thimble. Hopefully it's changed and I would love for someone to clue me in on the direction those matches have taken. If the quality is better, I'll watch. I guess my point is to take the Women's division more seriously. They need more matches like the Trish vs. Victoria (one of my favorite Divas) vs. Lita. All three had wrestling talent and they could put on some matches that were watchable.

What are people's thoughts on the Draft?
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:01 AM   #85
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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Bed, the top part was when Russ said that Edge is better as a face.
Huh?
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:05 AM   #86
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

lol
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:12 AM   #87
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

I agree that most wrestling-fans today demands more from matches than they used to. But the casual fan, and kids often watch because they like the simpler things. And they love seeing the good guy winning against all odds, and love to root for Mr. Good Guy John Cena.

Cena can have awesome matches when needed (last years 60 minutes long match against HBK on RAW might have been the best WWE match all year), but the simplified style seems to get the job done for him. He is the most popular wrestler at the moment, has been for some time now and I dont think turning him is worth the risk. Making him use more moves and more technical/difficult moves will probably increase the risk of injury, something that the WWE wont risk.

Look at Hogans matches when he was in Japan, he had more moves and was a bit more technical than he ever was in WWF or WCW, but thats not what the casual fan wants. Vince insists on calling it "sports entertainment" and "Superstars" because the drama, the acting and the psychology is probably more important than the actual wrestling often.
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:53 AM   #88
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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Huh?
By Russ, I meant Dids.
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:41 AM   #89
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

If there is any possible way to get rid of the "What?!" comments from the crowd repeating over and over after someone says a sentence, please do it. Immediately. It was an awful gimmick at inception and is just horrendous now.
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:25 AM   #90
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

Used to be a big WWF/E fan back in the day but don't really follow much anymore, maybe a raw here or there, but I have a question for those who know a lot about all the happenings. I never really understood what happened with the rock, he was like at the top of the business and really popular then he just bounces and it seems like he's never returned? Did something happen backstage to drive him away, did the company not want him anymore, did he just get tired of wrestling and decide he wants to become an actor instead? I mean I can understand if he just wanted to do movies but it seems strange that he's never returned for a cameo or anything and that he just up and left when he was at the height of popularity.
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:34 AM   #91
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roc...urn_.282003.29
Look at how much he is making from all of the movies he is making.
Compared to http://www.wrestlescoop.com/info/salaries.shtml
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:58 AM   #92
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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I mean I can understand if he just wanted to do movies but it seems strange that he's never returned for a cameo or anything and that he just up and left when he was at the height of popularity.
He chose to focus on movies, no bad feelings in the locker room or with Vince. He doesnt do many apperances, as he has made it clear that he wants to be fully committed to his movies. He did however induct his dad and grandfather at the WWE Hall of Fame ceremony today.
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Old 03-30-2008, 05:52 AM   #93
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

Just browsed through this thread but would like to add my thoughts.

One of these things needs to happen to please me as a fan when watching WM: An awesome MITB match, Edge winning, or Orton (would settle for Trips) winning the Triple Threat. I don't see Edge having a shot at winning, Orton won't retain, so my best options are MITB or Trips winning the ME.

MITB will be stolen by either Carlito, Shelton, or John Morrison. These guys are super solid and can put together some awesome spots (Carlito springboarding to ladder, sunsetflip-powerbombing Hardy on the 15th Anniversary show, Shelton's performances in past MITB matches, and Morrison's stuff as Johnny Nitro in his IC title feud against Jeff Hardy, most notably their cage match at NYR 07).

I would love to see HBK beat Flair and turn into an ultraheel by being super disrespectful after the match, then cutting a bastardly promo Monday night proclaiming himself the best wrestler ever since he ended Flair's career. Doubt it would happen, but if you combined this with HHH winning the title, you could push Trips/HBK for a huge match at SS. I know it's been done quite a bit, but the two can bring down the house (see: Armageddon 2002). It adds up perfectly, the two have past and HHH/Flair are best of friends.

I'd love to see Santino Morello get pushed but I don't think he has the in-ring skills yet. He's absolutely gold on the mic though. Teaming him with AAA would be something I think would work well, if he gets better in the ring.

If I was WWE I would have thrown the cash towards RVD to come in as a surprise competitor in MITB once Hardy was suspended. The place would explode if the seven guys were starting and RVD's music hit.

Anyways, I have decent expectations for WMXXIV and hope that the downspots (Umaga/Batista, Playboy match, etc.) won't be that bad. I think Edge/Taker will have some good stuff, as I thought Taker/Batista last year would suck but it was the show-stealer. I could see any number of matches stealing the show tomorrow night It could be the ECW title match depending on who wins battle royal and how much time they give it or maybe even the Belfast Brawl (yeah, I'm a Finlay mark).

Hopefully it's worth the money. Glad to see wrestling talk back on 2p2 too.
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Old 03-30-2008, 09:41 AM   #94
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

Rock gets more money, more time off, more time with the kids, and less wear and tear on his body now.

NoTalentTool, I agree 100%. The What?! chant makes me like Austin less for starting it. Although it did give Undertaker a great moment on Raw a few years back.

UT:*talking about stuff*
Crowd:What?!
UT:Say What?! if you sleep with your sister.
Crowd:Wha...
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:55 AM   #95
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

Lol, that's pretty good.

Anyway... I just realised that Wrestlemania is tonight after I tried to download it. One of my friends said it was on last night and confused me .
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:46 PM   #96
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

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Lol, that's pretty good.

Anyway... I just realised that Wrestlemania is tonight after I tried to download it. One of my friends said it was on last night and confused me .
The Hall of Fame thing was last night. WM starts at I'm guessing 7pm eastern until 11pm.
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:33 PM   #97
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

Predictions:

Triple H wins the title (duh)
Undertaker continues the streak
HBK retires Flair (duh)
Umaga over Batista, setting up Umaga to Smackdown
JBL over Finlay, because no one cares about face Finlay, or this angle
Kennedy...Kennedy wins the MiTB, but I'm open to a surprise Matt Hardy return and victory
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:12 PM   #98
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

Is the ECW battle royal on the PPV channel before the start or is it on the net?
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:16 PM   #99
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

It's on the net. Whoever wins then gets a title shot on the show.
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:30 PM   #100
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Re: Official WrestleMania Thread

where can you download WM the next day? We ordered the PPV and have it on record but am on holiday for another week
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