this is easily the worst ****ing raw i've ever witnessed.

Ugh, I knew earlier hwen they had Orton's wife on that something was going to happen but I didn't watch like the last hour of the show.

Did Trips break in and beat her up since he couldn't touch Orton and Orton RKOed Steph? That was my initial guess.

Nope. Orton hid under the steps for like 10 minutes while HHH wandered around the house like a tard. He did throw Orton out the window which was kind of cool. A couple of Paul Blart's showed up and arrested HHH.

Gotta love Orton's wife taking a page out of Hogan's book and no-selling the break-in.

Also, wtf are they doing with Jericho? Flair coming back makes last year's match mean nothing, so the whole "challenge" for next week seems like nothing more than a way to reveal Jericho's real Mania opponent. If the internet is right, Hogan is out from surgery (and the fact that he's 95 years old). Flair is out because he NEEDS to stay retired. If Austin is out due to knee/back/neck health...this has to be Rourke now, doesn't it?

Yeah, dunno if that was Orton's real wife or not (she was hot though) but she's definitely not going to be leaving the WWE for Hollywood anytime soon.

I dunno where they're going with Jericho. Seems like they may not even have a match at all, maybe just a confrontation of some sort.

Just read that Finlay is the last one into the MITB match. LOLLLLLLLLLL what a lineup. Kane, Finlay, Henry, Shelton, Punk, MVP, Christian, and Kofi. Looks like MVP is going over.

I think you can pretty much throw out the possibility of Kane/Finlay/Henry/Kofi winning the MITB. MVP, Shelton, Punk and Christian are all possible to go over though, I don't think the result is too obvious.

Shelton will not be going over in this match. Nobody cares enough about him. Sure, he's talented, but that's not enough. MVP I don't think is ready to make the jump to main-eventer status just yet, but almost. Kofi is there to make it a spotfest, and the day I see Mark Henry or Kane win a ladder match like this...well, that just won't happen. I actually think this match favors Christian since not only do we all know the way he used to work ladder matches like this, but now they can really gauge whether he's truly still over with the WWE fans. He should be, but 3 years is a long time.

What really bothers me, as I already said, is that none of the titles mean jack crap anymore. We don't have feuds for either tag team belt (mostly because of a lack of good teams) and the secondary title holders were both in the MITB (until tonight, but who's going to work with JBL for the IC?). So now we have what, a women's title match that's just there for filler and the two World Title matches? Those belts used to mean that the guys carrying them were on their way up. Now? Nothing...

I don't think Benjamin is likely, but I don't count him out completely. Was Punk really that much more over last year? I wasn't watching closely around this time last year, so that's not a rhetorical question. Their push for Punk obviously hasn't worked though, he's been demoted back to midcard.

I couldn't agree more about the titles thing. That drives me crazy. The IC belt was so important at one time, it was huge when Honky put the Warrior over, then when Rude got big with that belt...Mr. Perfect, Bret Hart, etc. Those runs mattered. I don't even know what thought process the bookers use anymore when deciding who to put the secondary belts on. The day they had Ric Flair win the IC title, it really struck me that the belt was dead forever. Wrestlers aren't supposed to go backward from world title status into caring about the IC belt at all.

The women's division is about the only thing they've managed to improve from 10 years ago to now. Women's wrestling used to be a complete snorefest, the likes of Trish Stratus really turned it into a very watchable product (and not just because most of them are hot). We've come a long way since Bertha Faye...

While most this can be applied to WWE, I don't know if I'd go as far to say that we've come a long way since that time.

I don't watch Smackdown so I can't comment on that, but what I've seen over the last few years of RAW are a few good women workers (Phoenix, Victoria, Mickie James) but the rest are pretty bad and have botchfests. Plus the women are almost never given enough time to get a decent match in.

I don't watch TNA but from what I've been reading, their women's class is pretty amazing?

For the first time in years I watch a full RAW. How long have they been introless?

This was terrible, so many of the sequences were just dumb or stupidly booked, esp the Jericho/Kofi match (and wtf with Kofi's finisher, a double leg drop from a sub-200 lb guy, but it's a finisher 'cause of a dance, GTFO Scotty 2 Hotty). The Flair thing was so dumb. Jericho has dude locked in the walls, and instead of breaking the hold out of shock, he keeps it on until the ref makes him stop. Why the **** would you book it that way? Have him break the old and get nailed from behind, you don't let the heel get cheated wtf.

I was on the verge of getting back into wrestling, but this didn't help.

weird show last night...borderline awful. lots of idiocy with a few decent moments. cena segment was fun, the orton segment was from 1995, agree with everyone else that im really dissapointed in the MITB match lineup

Jericho kicked out without much fanfare so I don't think it's his finisher. It's just a signature move sort of like Booker T's spinaroonie and scissors kick.

Way too many promo segments on RAW last night, the brand extension is completely forgotten for RAW, only performers that are going to be at Wrestlemania were on the show. Triple H is just terrible at being an angry good guy IMO. If Jericho/Kofi is going to headline RAW at least have something interesting happen like Austin or Hogan interfering.

Jericho has been getting screwed for his entire heel run. See his heel turn for explanation. Or before his rematch with Kofi after Kofi won his IC title.

this whole vicky-bigshow thing seems to be setting up an edge face turn amirite?
I was also expected a bigger pop for Christian. I certainly found it cool to have him back on Raw but it just seemed kind of ho-hum. Needs his old music back.

Apparently Christian got a big pop when he came out earlier for the ECW taping. The crowd didn't pop because it was the 2nd time they'd seen him.

Christian not having his old intro is dickbutt to the extreme

How does getting betrayed make a face turn? It just means the other bad guys got you.

Yah, but that doesn't happen in wrestling unless they want to turn someone.

yeah, he's getting ****ed by the bad guys, which typically happens to the good guys.

how does brian kendrick not even sniff a mitb qualifier? not even in this bs battle royale, is he suspended or something?

I don't watch TNA either, so I can't comment on that. I have started watching Smackdown though, and the women on there do a solid job. Between the two brands, there are a number of solid workers. Melina has gotten good on Raw (though she's better as a heel from a persona standpoint), Mickie James and Phoenix already were good. Candice isn't bad. On Smackdown, Maria has improved tremendously and is solid. The Bella twins are good, Maryse is above average. Oddly they push Michelle McCool quite a bit on SD, and she's one of the worst. Not particularly good in the ring, attractive but not hotter than most of the women, and her recent heel turn generated zero heat.

The days of Alundra Blayze were marked by completely unwatchable woman's wrestling, today the women put on a good enough show that it's a decent part of the midcard action.

This certainly seems to be the conventional wisdom, and also Tazz as a face announcer was starting to show sympathy on Smackdown by saying, "I have to admit, if I'm in Edge's shoes here, I'm pretty confused."

With that said, Edge was still fairly denigrating toward the fans on Raw, I don't think a turn is completely certain. While I wouldn't love losing one of the best heels in the company, maybe this would open it up for them turning Cena (who I find completely and utterly worthless, but would be interested to see if he could be more entertaining as an upper card bad guy).

Some old stuff just got posted on Youtube:

Matt Hardy and Christian Cage attempt to make pancakes

Undertaker in Japan 1997

http://www.sescoops.com That site is pretty solid. Matt just introduced me to this thread and I think there's some great insight/discussion here. Most interesting thing on Raw right now is the Jericho angle, for me anyways. I don't think Austin will be his opponent because I'm not sure if he can take bumps anymore like he used to. Lawler would be a huge disappointment imo, although that does seem likely.

R.I.P. Andrew "Test" Martin, dead at 33

Lot of wasted talent there, and him definitely being on steroids won't help this media-wise either.

Test could have been the King of WWE had HHH not drugged Steph and stole her away from him imo.

Shame about Test, thought he was decent for a big man.