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04-18-2019 , 03:38 AM
#1
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Thought I would make a thread as half the episodes have now been aired (they brought the Bruiser Brody show forward to coincide with his legacy induction into the WWE Hall of Fame).

The Killing of Bruiser Brody:


The Match Made in Heaven:


The Montreal Screwjob episode aired tonight and was really well done (I had forgotten about Wrestling With Shadows). The last 3 will deal with the von Erichs, Gino Hernandez, and Moolah.

Any other thoughts so far?
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04-18-2019 , 08:31 AM
#2
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Thanks for posting these. I'll definitely be watching either tonight or tomorrow and posting some thoughts.
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04-18-2019 , 01:05 PM
#3
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Well done shows, and I'm looking forward to the rest.
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04-18-2019 , 01:43 PM
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I was a bit disappointed in the Savage/Elizabeth one, I didn’t feel like it really broke any new ground. Suspect the same will be true for the Montreal Screwjob one. Probably good for casual fans, though.

I’ll be interested in seeing the rest, I’m not nearly as familiar with those subjects.
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04-18-2019 , 01:54 PM
#5
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I don't think there are a lot of huge revelations in those, especially for hardcore fans, but the interviews definitely add some color and flavor and make them enjoyable watches IMO.
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04-18-2019 , 09:09 PM
#6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True North
I was a bit disappointed in the Savage/Elizabeth one, I didn’t feel like it really broke any new ground. Suspect the same will be true for the Montreal Screwjob one. Probably good for casual fans, though.

I’ll be interested in seeing the rest, I’m not nearly as familiar with those subjects.
I haven’t watched any of these yet, but that is what I assumed would happen. There is just so much out there with podcasts and shoot interviews that it has been pretty much covered to death. With that said, I’ll probably watch the Brody one and I can’t wait to watch the Gino Hernandez one. I was about 10 or so when he was in his prime and just the little that I saw of him and what I read in the Apter mags was enough to capture my attention.
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04-20-2019 , 01:03 PM
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Enjoyable so far. Liked the Brody one the most. Savage stuff was mostly known though a little more about Elizabeth was discussed than I had known before. Montreal has been beaten to death.

Looking forward to the next three for sure.
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04-20-2019 , 03:26 PM
#8
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Montreal episode:

Spoiler:
Russo taking credit for the Screwjob is amazing. He wouldn't have known a wristlock from a wristwatch at that time.

CORNETTE SCREWED BRET is a slogan I can get behind tho.
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04-20-2019 , 03:42 PM
#9
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Spoiler:
Russo's a dip****. A few days ago Earl Hebner did some interview where he said he thought Montreal was a work. It's amazing how many people in the biz think it could possibly be a work.
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04-20-2019 , 04:22 PM
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Spoiler:
Hall's commentary was most convincing on it most likely being a work. Today they'll cut away from crowd antics, signs, possible wardrobe malfunctions, etc. WWE was still quite good at production back then, and they surely would have cut away instead of zooming in and following all the "shooting" that was going on after the match.
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04-20-2019 , 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksim
Spoiler:
Hall's commentary was most convincing on it most likely being a work. Today they'll cut away from crowd antics, signs, possible wardrobe malfunctions, etc. WWE was still quite good at production back then, and they surely would have cut away instead of zooming in and following all the "shooting" that was going on after the match.
Spoiler:
Vince had to know Bret was going to react in some manner. Perhaps he gave directive to the guys in the truck to 'follow and capture Bret' (to show Bret's 'heel' actions) because he thought he was going to be the babyface after all this.

But that doesn't explain how they knew to zoom in to Vince after he got spit on, unless that was a judgement call made in the truck.
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04-20-2019 , 05:08 PM
#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksim
Spoiler:
Hall's commentary was most convincing on it most likely being a work. Today they'll cut away from crowd antics, signs, possible wardrobe malfunctions, etc. WWE was still quite good at production back then, and they surely would have cut away instead of zooming in and following all the "shooting" that was going on after the match.
Spoiler:
I was curious myself on how long this shoot took place so I d/l'ed the original ppv version just now. From Earl calling for the bell to the end of the ppv broadcast was 1 minute and 12 seconds. Though a lot did happen in this time frame. This ofc didn't include the WCW finger painting by Bret.

Everything is censored easy now because there's a 7 second delay on all of their shows, including ppvs. This 7 second delay was implemented back in 1997 after Bret's famous "bull****" promo in Feb 97. However, there was no delay on ppv until the Network was rolled out.

Additionally, I think that going off the air cutting to nothing on a ppv is a lot different than cutting out some language in the middle of a RAW or PPV. Fans would be pissed if they didn't "see" what happened at the end.
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04-20-2019 , 05:36 PM
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There's no way in hell the Montreal Screwjob was a work.
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04-20-2019 , 05:44 PM
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No, there's not. It's fun to argue the points though
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04-20-2019 , 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antidan444
There's no way in hell the Montreal Screwjob was a work.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "no way in hell". To be fair, I'm sure some parts of it were off script, but a lot of the business was still that way back then.

It, ironically, could be the last great work that the wrestling industry accomplished. If it was a work, it was accomplished by blowing the lid off and admitting for the first time that the whole industry has always been a work......except for this....this is real.

Regardless, as .isolated stated, it is a fun conversation topic. And work or shoot, for us to be discussing it this many years later, that's really what they would have been going for all along.
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04-20-2019 , 07:48 PM
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To me, the "it could've been a work" theory's completely undermined by Bret's book which seemed extremely honest to the point of self loathing. Adding in things like HBK never saying it was a work, Bret refusing to stand on stage at WM 22 after being inducted the night before, Vince trying to spin it as him being the victim on RAW, and a few other minor things just make it certain that it wasn't a work. imho
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04-20-2019 , 09:44 PM
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I'm with Dan in that the answer is "no way in hell" or close enough to that to say so. It was a reasonable thing to speculate on for the first year or two (though I never did have any inkling in that direction), and I've even mused on the very outside possibility in more recent times, but it surely would have come out by now.

That said, it's definitely weird that Bret allowed himself to be put in his own submission finisher that far into the match when, by his own admission, he suspected that something might be up.
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04-20-2019 , 10:50 PM
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As has been mentioned, most screwjobs featured a fast three-count. That's why (I think) the submission screwjob wasn't in Bret's mind.

By the way, haven't heard this mentioned, but I'm pretty sure in the "Rivalries: Bret vs. Shawn" DVD (which IMO is the definitive source for all things Montreal Screwjob), Bret said it was his own idea to have Shawn apply the sharpshooter. Bret had reversed a sharpshooter on himself a few times in matches (usually against Owen).

I know in more recent stuff, a lot of people have claimed Shawn's sharpshooter was their idea (Cornette, Russo, etc.). I'm more inclined to believe Bret, personally.
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04-21-2019 , 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
I'm with Dan in that the answer is "no way in hell" or close enough to that to say so. It was a reasonable thing to speculate on for the first year or two (though I never did have any inkling in that direction), and I've even mused on the very outside possibility in more recent times, but it surely would have come out by now.

That said, it's definitely weird that Bret allowed himself to be put in his own submission finisher that far into the match when, by his own admission, he suspected that something might be up.
In his book, he said it's because Earl was the referee and he thought Earl would watch his back. Never thought Vince would get to him. Ridiculously naive, but there you go.
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04-21-2019 , 11:05 PM
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I'm also always surprised that Bret gave Shawn the initial benefit of the doubt, particularly given their relationship.

"I had no ****ing idea!"
"Okay."
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04-22-2019 , 06:26 PM
#21
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I'm also always surprised that Bret gave Shawn the initial benefit of the doubt, particularly given their relationship.

"I had no ****ing idea!"
"Okay."
Bret said on the previously mentioned DVD that he didn't believe Shawn, but that had he punched Shawn and later found out he was telling the truth, he'd feel terrible about it, so that's why he responded the way he did.
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04-22-2019 , 06:34 PM
#22
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Hmm. Well, okay. Still seems in that case like his reaction would have landed somewhere in between violence and the surprisingly calm way he handled it.



I'm also surprised that Blade is just hanging with his dad in the back at this moment, though I guess that could help explain Bret restraining himself. Still, Bret's wife gave HHH a harder time than Bret gave Shawn.
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05-01-2019 , 09:44 PM
#23
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BUMP for tonight's von Erichs episode.
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05-09-2019 , 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyKris
BUMP for tonight's von Erichs episode.
I didn't dislike this, but Heroes of World Class is imo the best work on this topic. So far I think the Brody episode is the best, mainly because it might help in finally bringing justice to the situation.
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05-10-2019 , 08:26 PM
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For those interested in the Von Erich storry, here's a link to David Meltzer's article on Kerry Von Erich's life and death published less than two weeks after Kerry's death.

Observer Newsletter Article: Death of a Dynasty, 3/1/93
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