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NXT TakeOver: Dallas NXT TakeOver: Dallas

04-02-2016 , 10:03 AM
I feel like Bayley sticks around to chase Asuka until at least the next Takeover, and maybe gets it back.
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04-02-2016 , 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Burdzthewurd
Does Nakamura speak English? I can't find any promos of his on Youtube. As awesome as he seems so far, how high is his ceiling really?
About as much as Asuka so very little. She's proof you can take a non English speaking foreigner to champion status based on style alone.
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04-02-2016 , 10:51 AM
Overall that was a great watch. The things that stood out to me...

1. I'd never seen Nakamura before outside some short clips, and honestly, his mannerisms as he entered the ring and at the start of the match just seemed odd to me, and I think they will to most people in the "WWE Universe". That said, he is amazing to watch, but I can't help thinking we saw his best match in WWE. I can't imagine that he will be able to work that stiff on the main roster (or if he can, only against certain guys) and that is such a big part of his appeal.

2. A motivated Samoa Joe is terrifying. I had only seen him in TNA during the phase where he was unmotivated and just going through the motions. Although the match was just ok because of the stoppages and the stupid ending, Joe looked insanely bad-ass in the match. It's the first time I've seen him where the hype around him actually seemed to make some sense.

3. Women's match was really good, but nowhere near the emotion of the Banks-Bayley matches. I hope they get another chance to go, but I'm afraid that they are about to stick Bayley on the main roster and put her in meaningless Diva hell.

Overall I liked everything (even Baron Corbin, who has really improved). Wrestlemania is going to be depressing in comparison. :-(
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04-02-2016 , 10:54 AM
Count me among those who don't understand 1. The appeal of Balor 2. How he's over with a smark crowd of all things who hate the ____winsLOL meme

That said he's still better than reigns
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04-02-2016 , 11:05 AM
Nakamura's mannerisms seem odd to most people in Japan too. Two of the inspirations for his persona are Michael Jackson and Freddy Mercury.
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04-02-2016 , 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
I also didn't mind the ref stoppages, stuff like that adds to kayfabe for me rather than detracts from it.
I sort of agree with this. I think that it hurt the ability to really get the proper story going, but I also think that the fact that you see key stoppages over stuff like this in the NBA is helpful in the kayfabe aspect. It's not a direct comparison because WWE is arbitrary and selective in when they actually enforce it, and the motives are almost certainly different, but I can still sort of excuse it because of the comparison.
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04-02-2016 , 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by LKJ
I sort of agree with this. I think that it hurt the ability to really get the proper story going, but I also think that the fact that you see key stoppages over stuff like this in the NBA is helpful in the kayfabe aspect. It's not a direct comparison because WWE is arbitrary and selective in when they actually enforce it, and the motives are almost certainly different, but I can still sort of excuse it because of the comparison.

I thought it actually added to developing Joe as a badass. I think his real frustration with the situation led to a lot of people reacting to him in a positive way. It might not of helped the match, but I think it helped Joe. He come off as very Lesneresque.
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04-02-2016 , 12:01 PM
watched this earlier. overall extremely good card. balor/joe finish was a bit wtf. thought the tag match was excellent, women's match was underwhelming though. nakamura/zayn was obv great. put me down in the "don't get the appeal of balor" camp as well
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04-02-2016 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
I sort of agree with this. I think that it hurt the ability to really get the proper story going, but I also think that the fact that you see key stoppages over stuff like this in the NBA is helpful in the kayfabe aspect. It's not a direct comparison because WWE is arbitrary and selective in when they actually enforce it, and the motives are almost certainly different, but I can still sort of excuse it because of the comparison.
Yeah I also agree it hurt the pacing/story telling as well. It's kind of a double edged sword. I think Joe did a great job of acting frustrated at the stops though. The easiest comparison is MMA. I've seen a few fights get paused when a cut above the eye obscures the fighters view.

I really don't think this was PG related since they've been fine with guys getting busted up recently. I think it was just a case of the ref seeing how severe the cut was and backstage making the call to get some jelly on it.
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04-02-2016 , 02:53 PM
Rewatched it this morning. Just an overall excellent event. Incredible how nxt can operate under a rather basic/common idea of "make the focus be on the competitiveness and act like the matches matter" and be consistently successful huh? Shocking I say.
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04-02-2016 , 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JimHalpert
Rewatched it this morning. Just an overall excellent event. Incredible how nxt can operate under a rather basic/common idea of "make the focus be on the competitiveness and act like the matches matter" and be consistently successful huh? Shocking I say.
yup so frustrating that it can't be replicated on the main roster

good guys vs bad guys

work a body part

no distractions or crazy shenanigans

commentators talking about the matches

not really that difficult but here we are
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04-02-2016 , 04:00 PM
So I get that people don't like when people kick out of finishers a lot. This was happening tons a few months back in the main roster. But in this instance being that this is NXTs Wrestlemania. Really supposed to be their biggest matches doesn't it make sense to allow someone to kick out of a finisher. Specially with it being the title match of the show.

And since Joe didn't come back in and destroy Balor after that finish I think it's Joe moving up on Monday and Balor moves on to someone else for the next few months
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04-02-2016 , 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by drumn4life0789
But in this instance being that this is NXTs Wrestlemania. Really supposed to be their biggest matches doesn't it make sense to allow someone to kick out of a finisher. Specially with it being the title match of the show.
I don't get what the justification is behind finishers being less effective in big spots on such a consistent basis.
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04-02-2016 , 05:02 PM
I don't know why I don't follow NXT more. This event was great. Tag match was great. Like nakamura vs zayn alot. Thought the women's match was very good. Haven't seen Bayley's earlier matches so I don't know if those were better like one poster suggested.
And I think joe handled those stoppages very well. And it should actually help him.
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04-02-2016 , 07:15 PM
Got to this a bit later than everybody else. Was as good as advertised and probably the wrestling highlight of the weekend. I agree with the earlier comment about Zayn playing generic babyface better than anyone else, but aside from charisma (or maybe part of it), his passion shines through. He gives a **** about winning matches.

That said, I hope this is the last time we see him lose and then hug the other guy for a while. He seems to do that on the losing end more often than anybody else.
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04-02-2016 , 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LKJ
I don't get what the justification is behind finishers being less effective in big spots on such a consistent basis.
It's not that the move is less effective, it's that the opponent really really really wants this match.
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04-02-2016 , 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sportsjefe
It's not that the move is less effective, it's that the opponent really really really wants this match.
Leading the move to have less effect, e.g. a two-count instead of a three-count.

I think it's good to have rare miracle kickouts, but they become an awful device when a regular watcher can pinpoint exactly what events and what matches they're likely to happen in.
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04-03-2016 , 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
I like how in NXT(and pretty much every other promotion) the guy out first doesn't get out of the ring while the guy out second does his entrance routine like they do in WWE. It's a small little detail but it looks really dumb to me.
it might be wrestler specific. I seem to remember Owens sitting in a ringside chair during Balor's entrance in Brooklyn.
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04-03-2016 , 11:04 AM
Just watching this now and had to pause it after Nakamura's entrance just to say that it was ****ing terrible. It's like he knows what he's doing is dumb so he doesn't bother to put any effort into it and the crowd pops for every stupid little hand signal like it's the most amazing thing ever. I actually had a good lol when he did that weird hand wave thing just as he got to the ring as it was so stupid looking.

Looking forward to seeing him wrestle though.
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04-03-2016 , 11:28 AM
I reviewed this briefly last night as I was watching, thought I'd share.

American Alpha vs. The Revival

Some very solid old-school pro wrestling here. Everything has a sense of heft and purpose. Let down a bit by some overly cutesy stereo spots. But I thought they did really well to play this up as technical prowess vs. brawling. Also nice to see a spot in which the ref enforces the rules and the heels react. Felt it lost its way a bit down the finishing stretch, but this is good solid action. Hot crowd.

***1/2

I love Regal as a kind of modern Jack Tunney figure here. How can the basic storytelling be so much better in the angles on NXT than it is on the main show? I don't get it. But awesome little hype package going into this one ...

Baron Corbin vs. Austin Aires

Clear face and heel dynamics make me happy. The phrase "NXT Universe" does not. Corbin stamps on the wrist at one point and I was expecting him to follow up on that, but he didn't. No real offensive strategy. I do like the idea of his character though, hating the indie darlings? I've always been a heel fan and I'm supporting him here, ha ha!

Wild Samoan style nerve holds? Thought this was Baron Corbin, not Baron Scicluna! I don't care though, I love how much this has killed the crowd. They are a proper wrestling crowd. And this is proper crowd control. I can't tell you how refreshing this is to see in 2016. His jawing, his methodical pace, his refusal just to do high spots. Bringing them up and down. This is good stuff in my opinion and if his whole deal is anti-indie, it's basically perfect that he works like this too. Perfect heel for this promotion at this time. I think I'm a natural fan. This match right here has authenticity in my view, a terribly elusive quality in a wrestling match for the last decade.

I was hoping so badly for a count out win for Corbin here, I'd have popped so much if that happened. But I do appreciate how much they put over the mere idea of the count out being a real possibility.

This match wasn't anything special really, I mean in the long view of wrestling history, it is just a match. But I absolutely loved the principles behind the match and what they were able to do here. It's just proof that those people who say you can't put the clock back are wrong. Fundamentals are fundamentals no matter what the age. And the crowds can be retrained. One of my favourite matches of the 2010s just for that. Don't just look at the rating for this one, I cannot stress how much I loved this match.

***1/2 (but for the concept and what it stands for in this context *****)

Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Sami Zayn

Nakamura's entrance is one of the most mind-blowing things I've ever seen. Has anyone ever had a "holy ****" chant just for walking down the aisle before? The atmosphere is just off the hook for this. Wow. It's something. It really is. I can only imagine what it was like in that crowd. Has to go down in history as one of the great moments, just amazing.

I did think "fight forever" and "we want strong style" were two sycophantic chants too far from this crowd. Come on now, get a grip. But in general they were as hot for this as any crowd I can remember seeing.

I did not really think that much of this match itself in terms of the body of the match. It was worked in that epic style and some of the near falls were effective, but this match wasn't about how good it is, it was about the crowd. And that moment of Nakamura'a entrance. Feels like one of the most special things I've ever seen as a fan. The match was there too. Nakamura'a aura and charisma on this show is up there with anyone I've ever seen.

***3/4

Quick break to make a tea, but this is a v. hot show so far. Not comfortable with "Thank you Sami" chants, but it is what it is.

Asuka vs. Bayley

When I say I'm a heel fan, I'm not joking. I honestly am going into this match wanting Asuka to break Bayley's ****ing nose and make Steven Graham literally cry tears into his Canadian blanket. A heel fan is born a heel fan, he isn't made, it's in his blood. I batted for Skeletor against He Man too. And Bayley as like the ultimate happy clappy gaylord ****ing babyface is probably one I've wanted to get decked the most. In a way I've not really experienced properly since childhood when I rooted strongly against the likes of Duggan and Beefcake. There's just so much more at stake when the babyfaces are loved and heels are hated.

Some pretty sound psychology here with Bayley trying to take out the kicking leg. This was a really submissions-orientated match for two women on a WWE product in 2016. They were actually more grounded than Zayn and Nakamura.

Thought this was some fearless booking. Not quite Ivan in 1971 or Taker losing the streak, but pretty amazing that it's within that sort of vicinity. I just love that they can return to the fundamentals of booking because of the crowd dynamic. Unusually technical bout I thought, but some compelling work.

***3/4

And now Bayley is actually in tears, am I happy? You bet I am, ha ha. Heels 4 life.

Finn Balor vs. Samoa Joe

This was a strong main event helped along by the blood and which created interesting things for Joe to play off. It was a very good match I thought, without being a great one at any time. Balor seemed a little wooden to me throughout this match, and doesn't seem like a very organic worker. He brought this down some for me because all he seemed interested in doing is getting to his planned spots. My feeling throughout was that Balor was trying to get back to a script and to his rehearsed spots. Joe was Joe, and even though I don't love him like some here, he knew what to do to make it as good as it was.

***3/4

This was a really strong card with almost no fat on it. Every match had significance and nothing was below 3.5 stars. I didn't have anything above 4 stars either, but it's pretty rare to get a card this solid from top to bottom. Talk of all-time card is obviously way overblown and I'd still take Mania X, GAB 89, Beach Blast 92 etc over it in a heartbeat, and probably from recent memory also NXT Brooklyn which felt like it had higher highs. But let's not detract from it because of overhyping: this was really good. I can't think of many cards that would have three matches at 3.75 and two at 3.5.

Note: I realise Asuka is meant to be a babyface.
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04-03-2016 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
I don't get what the justification is behind finishers being less effective in big spots on such a consistent basis.
Finishing moves in general don't make any logical sense. One guy has a secret super effective move that ends the match instantly, but only he can do it?

Finishers are like big entrances-- by giving them to everyone, and having dumb punny names on them it dilutes their effect in total.

I think wrestling would be way more interesting if it was more sport-like; not every baseball game ends on a grand slam. Make things more special by not using them every damn match.
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04-03-2016 , 11:41 AM
You'll get no argument from me on behalf of finishers. I don't like their dominance in the booking model either. That said, I can see the business justification, and I recognize that they're never going away. And as long as finishers are such a big part of the model, I really think that the current finisher kickout formula is completely transparent and therefore broken.
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04-03-2016 , 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Feldman
Finishing moves in general don't make any logical sense. One guy has a secret super effective move that ends the match instantly, but only he can do it?

Finishers are like big entrances-- by giving them to everyone, and having dumb punny names on them it dilutes their effect in total.

I think wrestling would be way more interesting if it was more sport-like; not every baseball game ends on a grand slam. Make things more special by not using them every damn match.
Well, it works for Kazuchika Okada. He can do a lot of things (an awesome dropkick, tombstones, the diving elbow drop, etc.), but if he is winning, that match is not over until he hits that Rainmaker lariat. Anyone else does that maneuver and it may get a near-fall, but when Okada does it, its over (unless he's going against Hiroshi Tanahashi). Though I do understand that people sometimes find it hard to believe that a lariat variant would effectively end a match where other stuff that looked more high-impact don't.

I do agree about making matches more special by not ending matches on finishes every time, which is why I praise the ending to Asuka/Bayley. I don't see referee stoppage ending a match too often, but I think this was well-done as Bayley didn't tap and it puts over her resilience (where Graves stated it best, Bayley didn't tap out, her body gave up) and its puts Asuka as a dominating force.
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