He didn't ask for an edge, he asked them for good luck. So Phil Ivey lied in order to carry out his mischievous plan of robbing the casino under false pretenses. You advocate that sort of behaviour, you really are a poor, degenerate soul

What I will say though, is that at least Phil Ivey was honest enough to admit to edge sorting in this case. He could have always pleaded his innocence and made it more difficult for the casino to prove that he used this tactic to win those 7 million pounds. He could have played dumb and maintained that he asked the cards to be turned for only superstitious reasons and that no edge sorting ever took place and that it was all nonsense accusations made by Crockford's and therefore he should be entitled to his winnings. This stance would have made it more difficult for Crockford's to win the case. So in that sense my respect for him is still there, as well as his poker skills obviously- but I do question his human qualities. You do have to ask yourself that if he is capable doing this to a casino, he could do the same to a fellow professional, a recreational player or a friend- since he believes it doesn't constitute cheating. You cannot apply one principle towards one person and another against another. You have to be consistent in your thought process!


So my advice for Phil Ivey is, stay away from -EV games and just play poker, make good investments and just be a good person. You have your millions, no need to get greedy now. If he turns a new leaf on this whole thing, he will be forgiven in time from those that didn't agree with his actions in the first place.

Good luck at the tables and may the poker gods be with you

jfc dude...

If the casino does not return my stake on a null and void bet where I had claimed to have cheated, then they are cheating also.

Why should the casino have the advantage both ways? That doesn't seem right at all.

If, despite 'cheating', Ivey had lost at Baccarat during these sessions in question, then Crockfords would have kept his stake wouldn't they.

I find being called a degenerate quite funny. Ususally when people on these forums are mad at me, its because I say that I declare all of my cash income on my income taxes because that is what the law requires.

I've thought about this some more, and as far as whether the casino workers can or should make certain decisions, that's an easy one. Of course they should.

Yes, a casino is often part of a big corporation. Yes, the stockholders should be treated fairly. So what are you going to do every time a decision has to be made on the floor, call a stockholders meeting?

I don't play any -EV games, and the only reason I would ever go to a casino is for a poker tournament, so I can't really put myself in Ivey's place. But in a casino or poker room, workers on the floor make decisions that affect the game all the time. If someone calls the floor, hethe floor probably didn't see what happened. Players and/or dealers may have different accounts of what happened. With incomplete information, the floor has to make a quick decision that affects the game. The owner of my local poker business usually isn't there. Only the floor can make final decisions.

In Ivey's case, he pushed his edge to the limit, with the approval of a casino worker impowered to make decisions.

If what Ivey did was stealing, it follows that the casino worker was part of a criminal conspiracy that allowed Ivey to steal money. Are you prepared to go there?

Some poker players will push any edge as far they can until someone tells them they have crossed the line. Tony G. tries to tilt a player by yelling, "I'll take all your money and your children will stave!" Women show a lot of boob to distract players. Players stall, talk a lot, and stare other players down. I've heard racial insults, straight players accused of being gay, your mom/girlfriend/sister was good last night, etc. Showing bluffs and slowrolling can be used to tilt players, as can calling the clock.

I don't do any of the things in the above paragraph, but I know that it's part of the game, and as long as the floor lets it happen, I'm actually fine with it, because other players at the table will tilt when I won't, which gives me an edge. Ultimately, whether it's poker or a -EV table game, it all comes down to what the employees on the floor will allow.*

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*Blackjack is an exception. The casino doesn't care if you count cards, which they treat as cheating, even though it violates no rule or law. All they care about is how much you win. If you're losing, or winning a small amount, no one is going to care whether you are counting cards. You're not breaking any law or rule. They just stop you before you win a lot of money because they can, which IMO makes blackjack the dumbest game ever.

lol @ poorsoulaments



and the casino claimed (cough *lied*), that they never heard of edge sorting before and only found out what's going on, because some of the staff somehow remembered that his grandfather knew this card trick back in the days



it probably wouldn't have changed the ruling, but imo there is no chance that no one knew, what was going on. and the only explanation they let him keep playing is that they freerolled on him

I'm not sure of the legal definition of a "game of unequal chance", but it still is such a game , it's just that the inequality has shifted.

This.

Ivey made certain requests and the casino agreed. It's their fault for not thinking things through before hand and denying him those requests before they were £12M in the hole to him. You shouldn't be able to just crack the ****s because the results didn't go your way like a 4 year old child would. I hope he wins the case. I would hope for the same outcome for any person in this situation.

Meant $ not £