Not hating, just trying to understand the logic/motivation behind outing good games to perfect strangers and likely above average poker players via the internet, and irl. I see all the poker venue and regional community threads in B&M and people seem to be so forthcoming and generous with info about the good games they play in. It's almost like they are advertising them. I also see in many strat threads, people will put the name of the casino/card room they play in and then post a hh where people are playing absolutely terrible- the cat is obv already out of the bag when it comes to places like Bellagio and Commerce obv, but everywhere else it pretty much isn't IMO. I also witness people coughing up good game info at the tables to grinders/winning players/people who are bad for the game in general all the time.

I understand that 2p2 is much about helping your fellow poker player, but I would think that would apply only to strat and general gambling advice, and that 'where to play' would be pretty sacred/top secret information. Am I wrong in thinking this/feeling this way? During the gold rush, did people spew wildly to anyone who would listen whenever they found a hot spot, or was mum the word? (dramatic comparison obv, but still...)

Again, I'm not trying to hate. I'm just trying to understand the psychology behind outing good games to perfect strangers and likely above average poker players. Everyone who has been around knows that it only takes a few grinders (or maybe even just one or two excellent players) to kill a completely healthy and soft game. ***Note: this post is regarding 2-5 nl games and higher, where player pools have become small, games have become fragile, and players are often trying to supplement if not outright earn an income.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

what good games? I dont know what the hell you are talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ag4...eature=related

Do you know this is effecting your regular game for a fact, or are you just being paranoid because you see these discussions regularly here?

I personally wouldn't worry about it. I really do not think that the 2+2er to venue ratio is skewed enough to where games are(or ever will be) effected in a negative way. There are just too few of us (or members of other poker forums for that matter) relative to the WHOLE poker community. Theres a lot of fish.

Then again, if your room only ever spreads one table of the game you play and there are 7 superstar 2+2ers that frequent it, your out of luck I guess.

The poker community in general has gotten better at all levels the past 3-4 years, its just what is happening. Just keep working on your leaks, and game/table select properly.... you'll be fine.

IMHO

pro: I'll look cool with secret information in the eyes of my peers, my fellow grinders
con: It may dry up the secret game
The pros are undeniable. The cons are speculative. Let's go ahead with it, and I'll cross the bridge when I get there. Why not?

I don't like this mentality. Just because you don't have a big sample size to confidently say that to out good games to grinders is bad for those games does not mean it is a good idea to out them. Basically, don't say "you don't know it's a bad idea; it could be a good idea. Let's keep doing it until you can prove to me it's a bad idea. If that happens, I'll stop. I'll deal with the consequences then.

Its only bad if the people are capable of benefitting from the information. If ie means that more fish show up, then it might be good.

Over the last couple of years, pretty much _every_ game has dried up in my experience, but it's not because decent TAGs took over. It's mostly because the huge fish didn't get better and quit (it's no fun dropping 5BI each night, or at least not sustainable unless you're rich). The fish that are still around did get better and they are not spewing off chips the way they used to.

Now, the games are still soft by any standard. BUT... if you are only being dealt 25-30 hands/hour at full ring and can only play one table at a time, even these soft games suck. You can still beat a game where each player is -2BB/100, but you will beat it for peanuts compared to having games with a few -35BB/100 players. You can plug away at your leaks all you want and your winrate will increase 1BB/100 which is basically nothing.

As skill discreptancy narrows, the games die. That's why more regs online in 2011 basically became rakeback pros and almost no one is putting up good winrates anymore - Nanonoke being a trully rare exception.

Live games are dead, everyone's solid?

Seriously, there is no appreciable long term difference between venues within even remotely realistic commuting distance for the live game at 2/5 and certainly above. Few venues can even spread these games on a regular basis, let alone have enough to generate a choice. In Dynasty's last LV report, there were only 5 rooms able to spread 2/5 on the LV strip. Of those, only 3 could spread bigger games. I'm pretty sure that everyone at this point knows where the Bellagio, Aria and Venetian are. Players continually circulate around strip and if a game was consistently better than the others, the other players will figure it if by nothing else noticing that their regulars aren't showing up. Which would make the room they left better to play at if they were winning players.

Therefore the premise that speaking about the bad play at a room is going to have an effect of better players flocking to it isn't justified. Certainly I've read enough HHs on live play to say that there is nothing I've seen that I've thought, "Wow, that's so bad I can't imagine it happening where I play."

Yes, it's real and I have witnessed it first hand on several occasions. There is a "secret spot" where a 5-10 game is different than all others in close proximity. It's free of non-social, no action giving, hit 'n' run ipod grinders, and it's an amazing soft spot for one or two pros who know how to blend in and keep the vibe up. Then one of the pros spews in the forums or in person, a grinder takes note, shows up, can't believe his eyes at the softness, relays the info to his grinder peers, and the game quickly downward spirals into just another bad 5-10- or sometimes it just dissolves completely because it was at a small venue and turning off just a couple "key players" at a small venue is often enough to kill a game completely.

So yeah, it's real and not just paranoia. At least at 5-10+. I have seen it many times over in both SoCal and Vegas. ***Note: I included 2-5 in my op because there used to be an amazing 2-5 game in Vegas that got outed (Suncoast, 2 years ago), and 2-5 is the lowest a pro will usually play.

Thx for the replies so far. Still looking for the tangible benefits of outing good games. And yes, telling people who are good for the game about good games is something entirely different...

"I
"Ipod grinders" very funny description of those internet, socially inept, nerds.

1. I do not "out" games.
2. I'm neutral in opinion when it comes to said practice's benefits v. faults.
3. I just disagree with OPs cause for disdain

4......

Also, I think feet are ugly and a foot fetish is creepy. Just sayin'

Because there arent really that many amazing games to care about who joins. If there was some private businessmen's game with 50k buyins and they literally play like it's NL2 and I was invited because I'm banging one of their daughters, then yea I'd keep that to myself. But otherwise most of us are playing no higher than 2/5 live which is still pretty fishy so it hardly matters who else comes along.

so we can show we are part of the IN crowd... I suppose.