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When is enough enough? When is enough enough?

03-11-2014 , 06:24 AM
Lately i have been curbing my appetite
i realize poker is a grind and its all about being up in the long run

when do you guys say enough is enough for your sessions?

im sure people can relate numerous times i start out hot and am up a few buyins
within a few hours and i end up staying for 10+ hours only to break even or end up down

so lately ive just been trying to stop while im ahead
if i win an all in my very first hand and double up i have no problem racking up
and calling it a night

i just try to set a daily goal and once i reach it i bounce
the casino is never going anywhere and i think i finally realized that instead
of trying to become a millionaire overnight

when do you guys usually stop your sessions?
03-11-2014 , 10:04 AM
This issue has been addressed countless time in these threads, but to me it never really gets that old.

I think you're on the right track by prioritizing leaving when you're ahead, however I would never do it after doubling up on my first hand or first round etc. I don't want to hit and run, and don't want to prevent a really big winning session. I generally will play at least two hours unless I manage to burn through my two buyins first.

Aside from that, I don't like setting too many rules for myself. In general though, if I start thinking about how I'm going to spend my winnings, then its time to leave. I think its hardest to leave when I'm down, but just a little. But I'll still do that if I feel I'm just spinning my wheels and can pick up where I left off later.

All that said, my average session runs about three hours.
03-11-2014 , 11:39 AM
whats wrong with hitting and running?

if you wait 2 hours to get into a game and triple up in your first hand
would you really stay or call it a night?
03-11-2014 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOLOSWAG420
whats wrong with hitting and running?

if you wait 2 hours to get into a game and triple up in your first hand
would you really stay or call it a night?
Its bad poker etiquette and will be remembered by other players. Further, if you double or triple up early, then you are very likely to be the big stack if its a new table, or among the big stacks at a table that's been going for a while. Leaving then flushes away that potential advantage and may prevent you from a big score. Betting your stack, doubling up and then leaving is what roulette or black jack is for
03-11-2014 , 12:04 PM
i understand the etiquette part but lets be real here

were all there to make money
if i set out a goal to make 1000 a day
and am willing to play 12 hour sessions to accomplish it

what am i supposed to do if i make 1000+ my very first hand and the players i busted call it a night

why waste my time playing shorthanded with nits risking my stack to potentially score more

when i can just call it a night enjoy my winnings and come back tomorrow refreshed

lets say you play a long session and on your way out you buyin to a lower stakes game
with the intention to donate

you blind shove PF and get a few callers and suck out taking down a decent sized pot
is it wrong for you to cash out here as well?
03-11-2014 , 12:17 PM
You should leave when you stop playing your A game, whether you're up or down.

Leaving when you've won a target is bad because you end up playing very short sessions in good games and very long sessions in bad games and when tilted.
03-11-2014 , 12:58 PM
i agree somewhat but thats why i like to use a daily goal now

i had a session where i was up 400 within an hour after 8+ hours i was floating back and forth and was down to 30% of my original BI

times like that i started to think whats wrong with me i could of booked a nice small win
now im stuck here grinding for ages

i eventually ended up staying and grinding it out even when the table became headsup
until players started coming in after about 16 hours i ended up cashing a 2k profit
03-11-2014 , 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
You should leave when you stop playing your A game, whether you're up or down.

Leaving when you've won a target is bad because you end up playing very short sessions in good games and very long sessions in bad games and when tilted.
+1

I leave when I'm ready to leave. Sometimes that's a fixed time, a stop-loss amount, or just a feeling that I should get out of the game. It is never, however, a take-profit move alone.

Suppose that you have a job where you can work as many hours as you want, whenever you want. You just show up at will. The catch is that your hourly rate is heavily variable. Sometimes it's very high, sometimes low, sometimes negative. You have to figure it out as the day wears on.

If you figure out that it's a very high rate 10 minutes into the day, do you work another 20 minutes, take a handful of cash, and leave? If you figure out you have a negative rate 2 hours into a day, do you continue to grind out a 10-hour shift? Of course not. But that's what you're doing when you "stop-win" yourself out of good games and hang around in bad games.
03-11-2014 , 02:41 PM
This sounds like the new book Win at Poker With the Martingale System!
03-11-2014 , 06:21 PM
Whenever the thought, "I want to leave" or "I don't want to lose my profits" even crosses my mind I play till my next UTG and go. I've ignored the impulse before and it's never ended well. I kind of liken it to knowing when your full after a meal. There's no set limit but if you listen to your body it will let you know when to stop.
03-11-2014 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichaelhorn
I kind of liken it to knowing when your full after a meal. There's no set limit but if you listen to your body it will let you know when to stop.
I'd be careful applying this to gambling or anything else with addictive potential.
03-11-2014 , 07:47 PM
Generally, I call it a night if I'm tired, I have something more important to do, I don't think I can beat what games are running (sometimes I play games where I'm probably a slight loser to learn new games, but w.e.) or the game is too deep to be practicing good BRM (this last one doesn't happen often, as I don't often play cash.)
03-11-2014 , 08:17 PM
I generally stand up and walk around when I notice I'm not paying attention to the game, when I comeback I decide if I'm racking up or not.

Playing in deep games is way to much fun to leave after the hypothetical triple up.
03-11-2014 , 10:44 PM
It's all one long session. Most of these considerations are meaningless. The only one even close is tilting. But really? Tilting?

Actually I forgot the most important one. If you're not one of the best 3 players. Happens.

Last edited by Shipfoolio; 03-11-2014 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Addition.
03-11-2014 , 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
I'd be careful applying this to gambling or anything else with addictive potential.
Good point. I'm not geared towards food or gambling addiction so the metaphor works for me but prob shouldn't be applied to everyone.
03-12-2014 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
You should leave when you stop playing your A game, whether you're up or down.

Leaving when you've won a target is bad because you end up playing very short sessions in good games and very long sessions in bad games and when tilted.
+1

Callipygian has answered your question. You need to address the identified leak in your game, which is that you aren't a good enough player to hold onto your chips once you've attained them. Do you change the way you play? Whatever it is, if you are going to hit and run, then go home early and study the game so you don't need to. In the long run, the less hands you play, the less you can win....its that simple.
03-12-2014 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvthegame
+1

Callipygian has answered your question. You need to address the identified leak in your game, which is that you aren't a good enough player to hold onto your chips once you've attained them. Do you change the way you play? Whatever it is, if you are going to hit and run, then go home early and study the game so you don't need to. In the long run, the less hands you play, the less you can win....its that simple.
no its actually more like i dont want to risk getting unlucky
if i made a good profit why keep going?

in one session i got pocket aces 3 times every single time i got it all in PF
multiways

on one flop i was a 2% favorite to win the hand luckily i got a miracle on the turn and river and took it down

whats the real point of pushing your luck if a gambler is on fire at the pit games (we all know how this ends he feels amazing and before you know it he went from having a small fortune to going busto)

why even risk that? if i set out to make 2k in one session and i do just that early on why keep going? the poker tables will always be there

i can just cash out enjoy my winnings and set it aside comeback and try to do it again tomorrow instead of potentially getting stuck or being in the hole when we started off up
03-12-2014 , 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
You should leave when you stop playing your A game, whether you're up or down.

Leaving when you've won a target is bad because you end up playing very short sessions in good games and very long sessions in bad games and when tilted.
Not only did callipy answer your question, but he explained the reason in a nice, short, to the point sentence that says it all.

The cards have no memory. Your last pot or last hundred pots don't mean anything when it comes to the next hand. I ask again, are you changing your play just because you won a big double or triple up? Why are you worried about losing money after you won it? Why can't you hold onto it? If you were going to play 6 hrs initially, why get up and leave after thirty minutes? Why not win more in the session and then you won't have to chase your losses in those sessions where you suffer a few bad beats. A specific money goal per session is stupid. Play each hand your absolute best and quit when your time is up. This point has been made a million times over the years, yet you can't seem to grasp it. Good luck at the tables.
03-12-2014 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvthegame
Not only did callipy answer your question, but he explained the reason in a nice, short, to the point sentence that says it all.
To be fair, I could have said more but I lacked confidence that someone named YOLOSWAG420 was going to benefit from extended discussion.
03-12-2014 , 09:31 PM
calli, you are one of my fav posters. Keep it up
03-12-2014 , 11:23 PM
If you really understand that it's all about the long run, then you shouldn't worry about losing back your money if you triple up in the first hour. Look at two scenarios:

You play for 1 hour; get up 1000; leave because you're up and don't want to lose it.
Come back next day, start off with a bad beat, get down 1000, play a total of 9 hours, nothing happens; you leave down 1000 for that second 9 hour session. So for 10 hours of play, you are even.

or: you play for 1 hour; get up 1000; continue to play for 9 more hours, over which you slowly lose the 1000 and end up the night playing 10 hours and breaking even.

In either case, you played 10 hours, and were even. It doesn't matter if that 10 hours is broken into ten separate one hour sessions; or a one hour session and a nine hour session; or any combination in between. Your result after 10 hours will be whatever it is. It is a mythical construct in your mind that you "won" and left with "profit" the first night up 1000 in one hour. That's the whole deal about long run. Change 10 hours to 100 hours to 1000 hours and you can see why whether you stop "up" after 1 hour one night doesn't make any difference. The other 9 or 99 or 999 hours are coming, and you will either win or lose for that period as a whole. The fact that you "made" 1000 the first hour is meaningless.
03-13-2014 , 12:15 AM
While it is one long session, recognize that winning a bunch can make your game deteriorate as well. You may spike a few sets and then start calling with any pocket pair thinking you're just gonna spike a set. Alternatively, you could get so scared of losing your big stack that you turn into a giany pansy.

Obviously, we strive to neither let bad results nor good results disrupt our games. But if we're prone to doing it, we should recognize it and set stop-losses and stop-wins accordingly.
03-13-2014 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReidLockhart
calli, you are one of my fav posters. Keep it up
Thanks!
03-13-2014 , 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browser2920
If you really understand that it's all about the long run, then you shouldn't worry about losing back your money if you triple up in the first hour. Look at two scenarios:

You play for 1 hour; get up 1000; leave because you're up and don't want to lose it.
Come back next day, start off with a bad beat, get down 1000, play a total of 9 hours, nothing happens; you leave down 1000 for that second 9 hour session. So for 10 hours of play, you are even.

or: you play for 1 hour; get up 1000; continue to play for 9 more hours, over which you slowly lose the 1000 and end up the night playing 10 hours and breaking even.

In either case, you played 10 hours, and were even. It doesn't matter if that 10 hours is broken into ten separate one hour sessions; or a one hour session and a nine hour session; or any combination in between. Your result after 10 hours will be whatever it is. It is a mythical construct in your mind that you "won" and left with "profit" the first night up 1000 in one hour. That's the whole deal about long run. Change 10 hours to 100 hours to 1000 hours and you can see why whether you stop "up" after 1 hour one night doesn't make any difference. The other 9 or 99 or 999 hours are coming, and you will either win or lose for that period as a whole. The fact that you "made" 1000 the first hour is meaningless.
Well said, I just hope he is listening.
03-13-2014 , 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
While it is one long session, recognize that winning a bunch can make your game deteriorate as well. You may spike a few sets and then start calling with any pocket pair thinking you're just gonna spike a set. Alternatively, you could get so scared of losing your big stack that you turn into a giany pansy.

Obviously, we strive to neither let bad results nor good results disrupt our games. But if we're prone to doing it, we should recognize it and set stop-losses and stop-wins accordingly.
I agree with this 100%; if getting up big causes you to change the way you play, then it's time to go. But I got the impression from the OP that it's not about him changing the way he plays, it's just him leaving when he gets ahead, period. Based on statements like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by YOLOSWAG420

so lately ive just been trying to stop while im ahead
if i win an all in my very first hand and double up i have no problem racking up
and calling it a night

i just try to set a daily goal and once i reach it i bounce
If you're willing to leave after playing one hand, then it's not because you've realized you're not playing your best anymore. OP just thinks that if he leaves the casino with more money than he walked in with, that somehow it becomes locked in stone forever and the fact that he then loses more than that the next day is somehow OK, while he would feel bad if he lost it back the same night. So while he claims to understand about the long run, he really doesn't, IMO.

      
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