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03-21-2012, 11:46 PM
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#76
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stranger
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluem3
what tell does shades give to other players?
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That you are a fish! The same as wearing poker website branded clothing. (Unless it's FTP, that's just funny!).
I've heard of people using this as a false tell when going to a new card room but then you have to commit to the line that you're a fish for the whole session.
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03-22-2012, 07:48 AM
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#77
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Friendly Libertarian
Posts: 3,149
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gal Banks
That you are a fish! The same as wearing poker website branded clothing. (Unless it's FTP, that's just funny!).
I've heard of people using this as a false tell when going to a new card room but then you have to commit to the line that you're a fish for the whole session.
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Couldn't you just do that from how you play? Do I have to buy a costume?
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03-22-2012, 09:51 AM
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#78
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centurion
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 118
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
I primarily play 1/2 NL. Not sure if it really qualifies as a tell, but when it comes to deciding whether to call a big bet, I'm often simply asking myself whether the other player is really good enough to be bluffing. I'm probably using a few stereotypes to categorize their ability level when making this judgement and I'm certain I'm filing away my observations about their play without even realizing it, but that seems to work better for me than looking for something subtle.
I do enjoy giving off a false tell. If I flop a flush, I'll make certain that I double-check my hole cards to imply that I'm trying to figure out whether I have the nut draw. Then I'll just call the flop bet and raise either on the turn or river.
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03-29-2012, 10:25 PM
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#79
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centurion
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 124
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Here is maybe a new one I've picked up since black Friday:
So online the good players tend to have standard (and therefore disguised) betting patterns. Knowing the correct times to pot it or 2/3rds raise it, etc....
In live poker however, u usually have to shed this to adapt a more exploitive betting style where u just try to bet the most you can that they will still call, etc...
Ok, so here is the tell:
When up against a young online kid who is pretty solid, many have a live betting style until they are bluffing. Then, it seems many of them aren't sure how to sell a bluff live verses online so they revert back to their traditional mathematical, incremental betting pattern when bluffing.
So, if the young kid changes his betting from the varying live style to the way you used to bet when u grinded it MAY be an indication of weakness.
Don't count on it, but if u already suspect they are doing a move, let this add weight to that.
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03-29-2012, 10:46 PM
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#80
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centurion
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 124
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Caro covers how people protect their cards or where they put them after they initially peek. This is still very good today.
Though it was mentioned earlier, the shakey hand tell is HUGE. Even great players sometimes can't help it on occasion. I saw an online kid who had never had to hide his reactions before transition to live and was the worst at this. He flopped trips and turned quads against two guys that obviously wanted to play a huge pot and each time he smooth called w trembling hands and got both their stacks on the river. I noted it as a possible tell and later that night he hit a boat against me and his hands trembled again and I correctly mucked. I know him better now and he is a solid player and a member of twoplustwo. But it is a tell that some just can't help and is hard to fake.
If the room is cold and I am playing a higher stake game than I usually do, it takes me awhile to get comfy, so I have had trembling hands before. I watched my hand tremble and hated not being able to correct it!
^ if you want more info on this, read Caro's book. This imo is one that is still applicable.
Let's see... The players that usually lean back that all of a sudden hunch forward interested still tends to indicate strength. The night after reading Caro's book for the first time I got JJ in early position, grabbed chips to open w a raise and caught the player on the button just all of a sudden super interested in the hand. Almost salivating at me almost raising. This guy went from leaning back to chomping at the bits to play this hand.
I smiled at him and mucked. U guessed it. He had aces and won a large pot off of the middle position opening raiser.
I said afterwards "wow I made a crazy fold" (I was young and dumb and hadn't learned to keep my mout shut) and the guy w aces says something like "yeah I saw you eyeing me, like you saw something" or whatever he said.
Don't put too much weight in tells as they are easy to misuse, but start by trying to spot them and never acting on what u think you pick up. Eventually you can start letting them SLIGHTLY influence your decisions. And like it was said above, it keeps the game fun! more entertaining than grinding online anyway.
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03-30-2012, 06:14 AM
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#81
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HP JoY 2011 wienerbucket
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 20,279
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
At low stakes, if you merely raise your head and look around, you can tell what most of the table is going to do on that street. Practically everybody telegraphs folds, so you know when those people intend to play a pot. The nit who wants to raise is usually quiet, and is VERY certain not to accidentally act too early. Someone who uncharacteristically makes a point about being upset by your betting has a very strong hand. (He usually tanks, sighs, and shoves. You should fold.)
Take off your iPods and sunglasses, put away the phone or tablet, and pay attention. You'll figure it out soon enough.
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03-30-2012, 01:21 PM
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#82
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journeyman
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: You consider pro poker, living??
Posts: 339
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Without a really strong background in psychology and human interaction tells won't do you much good.
Two people might do the same thing in two very different situations. The only way to give yourself a probability of which situation is which is being able to profile and anticipate correctly by what somebody of that emotional and social makeup is going to do in a situation.
For the most part:
Younger players are looser than older players.
Older players don't bluff as much.
When they do bluff, it's a ridiculous spot mostly and they may show you it a lot of the time.
They don't trust you if you're under 30 years old. Prepare to get called by everything.
Weak is strong, strong is weak (in about 80% of cases) but this does not reflect bet size. A HUGE bet into a HUGE pot is much less likely a bluff from an amateur player, as most of them just flat out don't have the moxie to do that. However, conversation, table appearance, stance, stature, posture, etc can be applied to this somewhat reliably.
The super fast heartbeat immediately after they bet in that vein on their neck indicates a hugely strong hand. It helped me fold KK the other day preflop to a 4bet and the guy rolled over aces. This one has never failed me, almost ever. Watch that vein and the speed when people have big hands, as they can't control it, and it will reliably help you pick out their stronger holdings. When it slows but is still beating with high pressure, you can detect deception and things of that sort. This is one physical tell that is based in science and not theory of human nature.
99.9% of players cannot control their heartbeat in situations like that. They will get parched, facial expressions and cheek depressions change, and subconscious body movements come out that give away some players. Thus the hands over the face you see so often. Since that's mistaken as a bluff in Caro's book (I believe), it's great to try to do that when you have a huge hand to block that vein in your neck and at the same time, you might just be up against someone that read Caro's book and will misinterpret it. I don't say to do it because of the false tell potential, but the more protecting yourself potential with an added benefit.
Other than that, just look for good spots statistically and take shots, develop a table image and you may be able to notice something that seems out of context in the way they act compared to how they were acting previously. Keeping your table image into the equation is huge. How they view you and how they view what you did, and how they will react to that view of your actions. That's the #1 predeterminate in reading situations in general.
Keep at it.
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04-01-2012, 04:30 PM
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#83
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grinder
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 694
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Bet-sizing tells prob the most relevant, as they're definitely not subject to reversal and are largely unconscious, also at LLSNL players pretty much bet their hand strength -- I'm using his info to vbet thin or call light, rarely to pick off bluffs as there's not nearly as much profit in this imo.
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04-02-2012, 09:22 AM
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#84
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adept
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 773
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
I was playing very actively at a table this weekend, and had put some pressure on an older guy at the table a couple of times at the flop. After the third time I made a big cbet on a flop he gave a very audible irritated sigh. At this point I know he is going to start looking me up because his body language and poor restriction of his emotions.
So of course when I double barrel my gutshot/nut flush draw and hit my gin on the river, I bet out a big overbet ($73 into $40) and he snaps for half his stack.
Pay attention to your image and when people get irritated/emotional/tilty. They will start calling light.
Also, biggest tell is the bet/check/bet line, or call/check behind/bet line when most draws don't come on the river. Poor players will try to buy the pot alot, so pay attention to bet sizings.
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04-02-2012, 12:22 PM
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#85
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,139
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gal Banks
That you are a fish! The same as wearing poker website branded clothing. (Unless it's FTP, that's just funny!).
I've heard of people using this as a false tell when going to a new card room but then you have to commit to the line that you're a fish for the whole session.
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Not sure I agree with this. Top pros wear shades to hide their eyes. We wouldn't a semi-pro want the same advantage? I agree it seems douchey in a 1-2NL game, but douchey does not equal bad.
Also, haven't played online in years but I still have a couple of sweaters and t-shirts from a few of the poker sites. If you think me wearing them is an indication that I'm bad I don't know what to tell you.
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04-02-2012, 12:27 PM
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#86
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,139
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
I've tended to notice people generally play the way they dress. Sloppy dressers are much more loose aggressive then guys wearing nicer pants and a tucked-in dress shirt.
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04-02-2012, 04:38 PM
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#87
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HP JoY 2011 wienerbucket
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 20,279
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoPort
Not sure I agree with this. Top pros wear shades to hide their eyes. We wouldn't a semi-pro want the same advantage? I agree it seems douchey in a 1-2NL game, but douchey does not equal bad.
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I've yet to see someone at low stakes fit both of these descriptors:
* wears shades
* is good at live poker
I realize it's correlation, not causation, but something to think about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoPort
Also, haven't played online in years but I still have a couple of sweaters and t-shirts from a few of the poker sites. If you think me wearing them is an indication that I'm bad I don't know what to tell you.
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It's like wearing the band's tshirt at the concert. Don't be That Guy.
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04-03-2012, 08:53 AM
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#88
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newbie
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
Some people will check really quickly (especially when first to act) when they are very strong (i.e flopped trips etc), like they want their action to go unnoticed. The worst players even have a split second of looking surprised first, then check quickly.
Some players do the complete opposite when they want to see a free card. They check forcefully/loudly and often at the direction of the player still to act, like they want to arouse suspicion, hopefully causing the other player(s) to check behind. This is really just basic 'strong means weak' but done a little differently to normal.
Both of these are obviously really basic and as with everthing only apply to certain, and in this case mediocre players, but they have been quite reliable for me when interpreted properly
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04-03-2012, 12:30 PM
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#89
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: We're all Lebowskis on this bus
Posts: 7,800
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
I've just gone over this thread and realized that an important aspect of tells has been left out:
The things a player does or says that are deliberate, conscious actions may be deceptive, intended to cover up or distract you from the truth.
However, the things that a player does or says that are unconscious or accidental are highly likely to be honest. They might or might not be related to the play of the hand, but when they are they are helpful indeed to tell readers.
It's tough to fake unconscious actions in a convincing manner.
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04-04-2012, 12:40 AM
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#90
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newbie
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 39
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Re: What tells do you notice about other players?
For me, a reliable tell is the villian looking away when you make eye contact. This almost always means they bluffed.
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