Showing Cards at Showdown - Page 7 - Mortar and Brick -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

**The Palimax** · 06-15-2012, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

A call isn't the price to see someone else's hand. It's the price to put in your claim to the pot.

True, but a showdown also entitles you to see the contents of all showdown hands in the game of poker. [Multiple references available.] This was true in 1880. This was true in 1950. This is true today. The only time it isn't true is when a casino makes a rule to the contrary.

Further:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Ciaffone, in an email conversation, April 28, 2010

[Matt S.]Can you elaborate on, “The law has always been that all hands must be shown”? I understand that the rules of the game of poker have always included that, but it seems no casino’s rulebook says that – including your own set of rules.
[Bob Ciaffone][T]he players in the game have the right to see the contents of all the hands that were live at the showdown. That was the rule since I started playing poker at age 9 in my mother’s poker circle back in 1950 and has been the rule ever since in every game I have played in. You can make the winner show his hand by not giving him the pot until he does show. Left unanswered is how to see a losing hand if a player does not want to show it. The dealer will not show a losing hand or ask the player to show a losing hand, for several good reasons. We do not want it to become a winning hand is one reason. We do not want a weak player to be annoyed or embarassed [sic] by having his hand shown. So a player must ask. This was the rule and remains the rule. What to do if a player asks and what to do if the player is uncooperative and what to do if the hand is already in the muck are the parts of the rule that are not defined.

[Matt S.]
And do you know of any resource to obtain a copy of a any casino’s actual poker rulebook – the older the better?
[Bob Ciaffone] No.

So I say, again, almost all the time, just roll your hand over and win the pot -- and sometimes, when it's important to you, and you understand the consequences of doing so, make sure you see the other person's cards, because you've paid to see them.

dgiharris · 06-15-2012, 11:03 AM

Interesting post, but I would say that sports/games evolve.

Boxing started out bare knuckles, clotheslines used to be legal in football, and there was no shot clock when basketball started...

It's interesting that online poker deviates from live in respect to showdowns, but I'd argue that is moreso for the sake of quelling the "it's rigged" crowd by showing the winning hand. I mean, otherwise if the pot merely pushed to an opponent without anyone seeing a winning hand that would cause problems since there is already a degree of separation between the players, ie the computer.

bulls_horn · 06-16-2012, 06:11 PM

What was kind of glossed over early, and what this Star guy completely ignores, is that sometimes people mis-read their hand and are happily willing to concede the pot (lest they give up a valuable piece of ammo in the Information War).

Then they're forced to show down and "Oh wow! I didn't even see that straight!"

I'm willing to bet that one decent-sized pot lost in this way would make up for all the valuable information gained by forcing a showdown.

AlanBostick · 06-16-2012, 07:26 PM

Which is more likely, that someone misread their hand and fail to notice something that beats our verbalized declaration, or that they misread their hand and show down something that they believe does beat it?

IMR, if the deciding factor in this debate is misclick equity, then it's not an important debate.

pfapfap · 06-16-2012, 08:39 PM

It's not really a debate at all.

People who know what they're doing assist with a smooth game. There's a rash of folks in town for the various Seniors' Events this week, and they're the tits. The games go smoothly, hardly any problems, and people enjoy themselves at the table.

The people who cause all these kinds of problems and say "but it's the RUUUULEEESSS!!!!" while conveniently ignoring other "best interest of the game" rules tend to be at the intro stakes.