My point is that there's no World Governing Body for poker, and so relying on government wouldn't even fix his problem the way he intended.

Do you have the right, if you are the caller, to enforce the "show or muck" standard on your opponent?

Yes.

Should you?

Not often. There are specific situations where no one at the table would fault you (villain is a slowroller/douchebag), but by in large, showdown staring wars irritate everyone else at the table.

If a lot of villains don't know the "if you're called, you should immediately show" rule, then most table observers won't know it either, and you stalling is just going to agitate that many more people.

If I'm called, I always show if I think I might be good (which is likely if I led with a bet). On those rare occasions I'm bluffing and called (LOLnit), I usually say "good call", and if my opponent doesn't immediately table I think show the bluff and shrug.

If I'm the caller, I wait a beat to see if he's going to show first, but if it becomes obvious he doesn't want to (either he just sits there or says "good call"), then I flip them over. If I'm beat he's going to have to show anyway, so I'll get the same information.

And I never, even if villain is a complete douche, slow roll when I have the nuts or close to. What information do you think you are going to get? You had the nuts and he had a hand good enough to call (or thought you were bluffing) - does it really matter if that hand is TPTK or a weaker flush? Just show, allow him to fold if he wants, and stack monies.

let players show, but if its a big fish just show your hand, you don't wanna upset the fish

If you're called show your hand or muck.
The showdown staring war, and then you finally give in and table your hand.
Ya think?

Oh, for sure. Sorry, I wasn't really responding to you directly, just more agreeing with the idea of it being unnecessary.

Yeah.

Well, I'd love to know what fraction of the people annoyed with people who don't show instantly when called, are people who are online refugees.

There's no staring war, it's literally bang bang.

"Call."

"Good call, I have nothing."

He tables or stares for like one second.

I muck or show.

It takes less than five seconds, and probably an identical length of time compared to me just flipping over my hand silently, him checking it out before he shows, then showing himself.

But your bitter sarcasm is greatly appreciated, particularly when I rarely bluff and always show immediately, regardless of who's "turn" it is, like 99.9% of the time.

I think steamraise works in a particularly hostile room, based on some of his accounts. I hear LA is like that, too.

Well you did say you think before showing the bluff.

While it may be short, when you say nice call hoping your opponent will show first,
and then think before showing your hand, you have initiated and are participating in the showdown dance.

I heart steamraise. Too much wisdom in this post. My head might asplode

I must respectfully disagree with pfapfap about verbal declarations in lieu of actually showing a hand.

There are simply too many angle-shooting scumbags, at least in the games I regularly play, to base a decision to show or muck one's own hand on anything except what actual cards are actually shown.

("Trust, but verify.")

I think people usually say "it's good" and let the person show before mucking, but I haven't seen it be a problem. I agree, though, different markets may vary.

Actually, I didn't say that I think before showing a bluff at all. Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

I can't think of a situation (except in those very rare spots I'm up against an angler/slow roller) where it takes me more than a couple of seconds to show my hand, whether it's my official turn or not.

If you find three seconds before someone shows irritating, then you are definitely more of the problem than I am. I'm absolutely following standard table etiquette.

Am I reading this wrong?
I never say "good call" and hope my opponent shows.

When my river bluff is called I turn my hand over like it's the nuts.

Look sarg, what you're doing isn't a huge problem.
But first you say showdown staring wars irritate everyone else at the table.
And stalling is just going to agitate that many more people.
And then you explain how you stall just a little bit.

I don't think "nice call" is bad etiquette, although I prefer actually declaring my hand. ("8 high."). But don't do any more than a momentary pause. If your opponent doesn't immediately turn over his or her hand, just table the bluff.