Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Rules Question - BB confusion and what constitutes significant action Rules Question - BB confusion and what constitutes significant action

03-12-2014 , 05:47 PM
Hero is playing a 1 2 NL in Eastern Pennsylvania at 5am (after his 2 5 NL game broke earlier). It is late, everybody is grumpy, and pretty much no one is paying attention :-) Hero is in seat 7.

Button is in seat 4. Seat 5 is a new player who just sat down and is not dealt in. Seat 6 should be SB ($1) and Hero should be BB ($2). Seat 6 sees he is 2 to the left of button and posts $2 instead of $1 before cards are dealt, thinking he is BB. Neither dealer nor anyone at the table notice the mistake. Hero looks at his cards and mucks. Seat 8 mucks, Seat 9 mucks. Seat 1 limps, Seat 2 limps. At this point button notices the mistake and says seat 6 should be SB and Hero should be BB. Dealer tells Hero to put in $2 in the pot. Hero responds that he feels that there was significant action in the hand already and therefore seat 6 should now assume the BB (as in hero's mind this situation is similar to the case where the button did not move, but significant action already occurred).

What should be the correct ruling by the floor in this situation? Obviously, I understand that getting a ruling for a $2 matter is not worth the time of the floor, dealer and the entire table, but I am actually interested in what the correct ruling in this situation should be.
03-12-2014 , 06:24 PM
1. YOU made the mistake
2. THEN there was significant action

You pay the price.
03-12-2014 , 07:05 PM
Roberts Rules of Poker has that a misdeal can only be called before 2 people acted on their hand. That happened even before there was a call. However, you still owe the blind. The SB can take back $1 and has full freedom of action since the action is on him.

You don't get to benefit from your mistake.

Look at this way. Would you consider it fair if you posted the BB in the previous hand and the dealer told you that you had to post it again on this hand? Or if you saw someone look at their cards, muck, then claim they didn't owe it because they didn't put out the blind?

I didn't think so.
03-12-2014 , 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Would you consider it fair if you posted the BB in the previous hand and the dealer told you that you had to post it again on this hand?
Well, when the dealer forgets to move the button or the button moves twice, if there is a significant action in the hand (I think its 2 folds and a call or 2 calls) - the current position of the button is considered a correct one and the game continues as normal from that point on.

How is this situation any different (i.e. why would posting BB with significant action behind not actually make seat 6 a BB for this hand once there's significant action)?
03-12-2014 , 09:36 PM
The button was in the right spot. The dealer didn't even deal in seat 5. Post your two bucks. Sorry you weren't paying attention. Let's move on.
03-12-2014 , 09:54 PM
Thanks for responses guys! Now, I see that I was not in the right here.
03-13-2014 , 02:19 PM
Pay attention to the whole table, not just the guy next to you.
03-13-2014 , 04:12 PM
OP has primary fault, but the dealer shares some as well. When OP hasn't put out a blind, he should have been reminded that it's his BB when his first card is dealt. The SB should have had a dollar returned with his first card.

When his second card is about to be dealt to the BB, he should be reminded again. And if the house rules dictate such, not given a second card until his blinds are out.
03-13-2014 , 05:20 PM
Maybe the dealer didn't do any of that.

Or maybe the dealer reminded him half a dozen times and was ignored, as tends to happen regularly all night long. The player is always surprised.

I'd say it's 50/50.
03-13-2014 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap
Maybe the dealer didn't do any of that.

Or maybe the dealer reminded him half a dozen times and was ignored, as tends to happen regularly all night long. The player is always surprised.

I'd say it's 50/50.
Nah, the dealer did not notice it, until all the cards were dealt and preflop action was about to get to the button and then the button noticed it and brought it up.

You are right though - OP should have been paying much better attention :-)
03-17-2014 , 12:26 PM
First and foremost, the dealer should know where the correct blinds should be. It's part of running a good/proper game. Obviously, he screwed up this hand.

Good dealers also don't grab a hand in play and toss it in the muck.

They make errors.

Protect yourself, take responsibility for your actions and you won't have to worry so much about the mistakes that might happen.

You owe $2

      
m