Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Poker Discussion > Mortar and Brick

Notices

Mortar and Brick An alternative universe.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-16-2011, 09:51 AM   #16
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies View Post
My prediction is this topic will be highjacked, reworded, and given legitimacy by a high post counter.
lulz :

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...ayers-1126748/

What a coincidence (minus the post count thing)!!

Why do I feel this forum may turn into a virtual tug of war with over there?
IseizeDeadMonies is offline  
Old 11-16-2011, 07:35 PM   #17
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 242
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

As someone who's propped about 2 years on a graveyard shift, I'd agree with pretty much everything callipygian wrote. I'd say 90% of the guys we've hired either go busto in a couple months (either from poor playing, bad money/bankroll management, or degen blackjack escapades). I'm actually convinced there are at least half of the remaining 10% who've just had super long periods of run-good. That said, for a few, it seems to be a really enjoyable way to pay the bills.


Oh...and for anyone who does want to prop, be prepared to be hated by a large enough percentage of players that you have to hear about it on an almost daily basis.
hamsterhead is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:41 AM   #18
enthusiast
 
MrK31Canada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 90
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

I've propped before. I think most of what's been written is pretty accurate.

1. Some rooms use props, some do not. It's easy to simply ask and find out.
2. You can look at the money in one of two ways. If you're used to playing online, it's more like rakeback. If you're a live player, with a solid bankroll, you can think of it as a job with a fixed income. Anything you win at poker is "extra." This really helps if you're having a losing session.
3. Most props do go broke after a short period of time. I think that there are several reasons for that. Inadequate bankroll, house games, lack of discipline, inexperience playing full-time hours, and a lack of skill.
4. Table/room selection sucks. You'll get pulled off of juicy tables, and forced to play short unbeatable tables often. Make it clear what games you'll be expected to play.
5. Regular players will figure out that you're a prop pretty quickly. This can be very awkward. As you may have guessed players will feel like you're playing with house money. They will often think that if they beat you, they should get some reward. They will bring it up constantly.
6. It's important to establish your own set of rules for how you play other props at the same table. If you soft-play it's unethical and will quickly be noticed by the other players. That is not good. Frequently props will play hands "straight up" against each other. Or, will essentially play limit poker in no-limit games.
7. I know a former prop that played out West. His room "forced" all their props to have a certain bankroll level that was kept in their box at the casino. Depending on the bankroll level, you were put in certain games.
MrK31Canada is offline  
Old 11-19-2011, 02:57 PM   #19
adept
 
UGotTheTouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 789
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Where do props even exist anymore? I seriously have never run into one. They just in Cali now?
UGotTheTouch is offline  
Old 11-19-2011, 03:51 PM   #20
Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
 
The Palimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,577
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

We've got "hosts" here in Arizona, which are, for lack of a better term, props.
The Palimax is offline  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:39 PM   #21
adept
 
whickerda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Under The Black Helicopters
Posts: 1,003
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

If you're a live player you know $12 per hour rakeback is as good as it's gonna get.
whickerda is offline  
Old 11-21-2011, 09:23 PM   #22
Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
 
The Palimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,577
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies View Post
It isnt really any of your business what people do as far as paying taxes is it? Not even sure why you would even care what others do when it comes to paying taxes.
Seriously?

Seriously?!?
The Palimax is offline  
Old 11-21-2011, 10:44 PM   #23
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax View Post
Seriously?

Seriously?!?
Not sure what u mean.

Minding other peoples business + being vocal about it on a public forum is a bit douchie to me...what do I know?

If someone doesnt want to pay taxes, its not for me to judge, or tell what to do....and no one has the right to do so...period. Who really cares? Just my 2 cents.
IseizeDeadMonies is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:17 AM   #24
Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
 
The Palimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,577
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies View Post
Not sure what u mean.
People who (a) participate in society, and (b) don't pay their fair share are, socially speaking, thieves and deadbeats.

"Thanks for paying for this road, bitches."

So, to relate this to the topic at hand - because I'd hate to be moderated for being off-topic - you have to consider the $10/hr from this promotion like any other sort of income. I'd be curious if the casino is under some sort of obligation to provide a statement of income if they pay more than $600 to a player, or whatever the income threshold is for contract employees.
The Palimax is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:24 PM   #25
slowrolled by tpiranha!
 
callipygian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: but I don't know which
Posts: 12,016
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies View Post
It isnt really any of your business what people do as far as paying taxes is it? Not even sure why you would even care what others do when it comes to paying taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies View Post
Minding other peoples business + being vocal about it on a public forum is a bit douchie to me...what do I know?

If someone doesnt want to pay taxes, its not for me to judge, or tell what to do....and no one has the right to do so...period. Who really cares? Just my 2 cents.
For the reasons Palimax pointed out - your failure to pay taxes increases my tax burden - it really is my business whether other citizens are paying their taxes or not.

For some reasons Palimax did not point out - failure to pay taxes now will force you into laundering the money at a loss later if you wish to eventually use your money for legitimate purposes - it may be a good thing for you (regardless of whose business it is) to pay taxes now and let the money grow with interest.

I believe David Sklansky wrote a piece on this issue but I'm unable to find it at the moment. Basically, he argues that if you win X amount and pay Y taxes but can invest it at Z rate, eventually the compounded interest overcomes not paying taxes and not being able to invest it, so if you plan to win a lot of money for a long time, it's rational to pay taxes.

But putting all that aside, there's the very practical matter that if you plan on doing something illegal, you really shouldn't be plastering it up on a public board. The vast majority of boards, including B&M and Poker Legislation, have pretty strict rules about advocating any sort of illegal behavior, whether it is tax evasion, laundering money, obtaining chemical substances, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies
Im incorporating soon so my poker winnings will be included in my tax paying responsibilities if this helps ease your mind.
I strongly suggest you read through the Poker Legislation FAQ. There is a specific section on incorporating.

PL FAQ:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...ts-faq-740589/

Russ Fox on S-corps (linked from the FAQ but if you're lazy just read this post):
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=10
callipygian is offline  
Old 11-24-2011, 06:07 PM   #26
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
Ill continue this derail I suppose. I found this kind of interesting:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/econom...ent/50676912/1

Specifically the part where it says most of the people that avoid paying income taxes fall within the $75k-$100k/yr range.

Im no expert, but I would imagine that there are exponentialy more $75-$100k earners in this country then those who are WINNING casino gamblers. I think you have your eye on the wrong people not contributing to our infrastructure through taxation people.

Also thank you for link on LLC/S corp. Good read. Fortunately, I am considered a private contractor in the golf business so I guess I will be incorporating as such...not as a pro poker player.

**Disclaimer **: I do not promote, endorse, nor criticize/judge OTHERS choices to participate in illegal activities, or THEIR choice to post about said illegal activities (intentional or not) on a public forum.

Last edited by IseizeDeadMonies; 11-24-2011 at 06:30 PM.
IseizeDeadMonies is offline  
Old 11-24-2011, 10:39 PM   #27
Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
 
The Palimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,577
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies View Post
Im no expert, but I would imagine that there are exponentialy more $75-$100k earners in this country then those who are WINNING casino gamblers. I think you have your eye on the wrong people not contributing to our infrastructure through taxation people.
Does it help you sleep better at night to think that you're not alone in wanting to cheat the rest of us? Pay your share like (most of) the rest of us.
The Palimax is offline  
Old 11-24-2011, 10:58 PM   #28
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

At what point in any of my posts did I say I wanted to avoid paying taxes? If incorporating is a way to avoid paying taxes, I can assure you that isnt the reason I am considering doing so.

Do you know what assuming does?

My original gripe was with someone minding anothers business....which is valid
IseizeDeadMonies is offline  
Old 11-24-2011, 11:07 PM   #29
Poker Room Rep
 
MSUspartan4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Treasure Island Las Vegas
Posts: 153
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by livegrinder View Post
Everytime I look in the TI poker room, you have 1-2 tables running. Is this still true? Or is there a lot more now?
During the week, that's still the case. Based on the feedback from the upcoming promotion, that is definitely going to change on January 1st.
MSUspartan4 is offline  
Old 11-24-2011, 11:36 PM   #30
Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
 
The Palimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,577
Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies View Post
My original gripe was with someone minding anothers business....which is valid
You recognize these are discussion forums, right - where we openly discuss things, like the potential tax obligations on these sorts of promotions? "Mind your own business" doesn't go far on discussion boards. DUCY?

So, I say: Lighten up.

If you're going to pay your taxes, that's great; it's nice to have you in the club.
The Palimax is offline  

 
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive