In full disclosure, I like Rapini. I think because of Rapini's policies, B&M is a very readable forum and easy to get information out of. (Don't worry, this doesn't mean I'm going to try to implement those policies over here. )

Those same polices while making it more readable, make it much harder to post in, and sometimes downright impossible to have a fun relaxing conversation via the forums. Hopefully this forum provides a solution to that issue and provides you with a nice home to post, with less rules and a much more casual atmosphere.

It is not, however, a place to bash Rapini, or, in reality, any mod. Nor is it really a place to discuss "fixing" B&M. If you do wish to discuss changing policies for B&M, they have their own moderation thread here.

Sorry Ray, I had not fully read this thread before I posted the above message.

No worries at all. I hope you enjoy the fact that there is an alternative, although it's not the first choice many people would have as a solution.

As some of you have no doubt heard or noticed, RayPowers after many years of service on 2+2 has decided that it is time to move on from modding. I've volunteered to replace Ray as the green mod for this forum. As a practical matter, the modding of this forum isn't going to change.

I've read, but not posted that much on this forum. My question for everyone is, what do people want this forum to be about? I was around the genesis of this forum so I know why it exists. However, that was months ago. What should the meaning of this forum be today?

In the genesis of this forum, we threw around a few options - where to put it, how to segregate and/or separate content between here and B&M. And, again, when B&M made their changes to moderation policy Mat wanted to know if things still worked for us.


This is pretty much where discussion the ground rules for M&B landed. [Some names removed to protect a conversation originally reserved for a private audience. Assume that all names are other moderators involved in the decision.]



It's hard to see from the final email, but I lobbied, both at the beginning and when Mat followed-up, that we simply get to take the lighter-side topics from B&M, those that needed (or would benefit from) a wider berth in the sort of conversation allowed in them. Give us the chip-porn threads.


Rapini has a standing offer to mirror any threads we'd like here, but I don't personally think that's productive. Looking at the 40 threads I see on a page, there's half a dozen, maybe, that I think would have benefited from being in this atmosphere -- but I'm not going to ask that they be mirrored, as I think it's just sort of dumb.


As long as the people who post here (and the people who provide the bandwidth) think they get something out of having an alternative to B&M, I'll gladly do the tiny minimum of occasionally telling you guys to play nice that I need to do to keep things civil here.

As I said in private, good luck to both of you with the change. Thanks Ray for your service and venice, I hope your addition will draw some LLNLHE guys and gals who don't like the way B&M is modded or don't post there for whatever other reason.

I always wondered what this thread was about. Found a closed thread after I did a search and I have my answer. Nice to have this alternative. If more people knew why this thread existed would probably have a lot more people coming over.

If you've got something new to say, and the content in the old thread supports your ideas, then bump the old thread.

If you've got something new to say and it doesn't benefit from the content of the old thread, then post something new.

If you're just trying to get your old post read because everyone ignored it the first time - don't bother posting at all.

I'm disappointed the Marina thread was locked.

Aren't the posts above a violation? (criticizing mods?)

It's curious to me that there have been volumes of complaints about a specific mod for numerous years. If poker teaches us anything it's that volume > variance.

Can someone please inform me as to the purpose of this thread? I do not want to make a post that is in violation.

Post was before my time modding here and after two years, I'm not going to track someone down to infract them. The purpose of this thread is to allow people who have an issue with the modding on this forum a place where they can make their statement without clogging up other threads. If you are making a good faith effort to be respectful of others and stay in the confines of live poker, you won't be in any trouble.

Thanks for the reply.

Do other MODs have a way to track complaints against their peers? I'm just curious if being a MOD is a lifetime position, or if it's possible for one to lose their MOD powers?

One can be demodded, but usually for deliberate misbehavior. My advice is about the direction you're heading is,

Thanks for the prompt & civil replies, venice10. Do you feel that only de-modding based on 'deliberate misbehavior' is fair, or do you think that repeat (justified) complaints from well respected 2+2ers can also be cause for removing a mod?

Thanks again.

Obviously the complaints are not enough, as you have noted yourself.

The administration actually went along with creating an entirely new, completely redundant forum, over removing a mod.

But was that really in preference to removing a mod? Or to satisfy 2 different group of live 2+2 posters? I suspect the latter - by far. Actually, I know of at least one instance where a mod (actually an administrator) was let go - at least in part over user complaints. The full details are unknown to all but a very few, and that's fine. It does happen.

Please keep in mind that sometimes complaints actually mean the the person is doing a good job (for example, see the recent court case Apple brought against their overseer - and lost, with stinging rebukes from the court saying just this.)

Lee

So, why is this moderation thread a sticky and not the one in B&M?

It would seem that the forum with more moderation issues should have theirs stickied, especially since a certain mod
1) seems to provoke more issues with his/her/its policies
2) seems to monitor "moderation discussion posts in the wrong threads" a bit more than other mods

Why would you ask in here why B&M does this or that? It's a different forum. Maybe ask in there?

Actually, both of your statements are just your opinion, not fact. I think it is more fair to say that there are some that are happy with how B&M is moderated and would be upset if it was moderated differently, some that are completely unhappy about it and a majority that accept that it is moderated as it is, but wouldn't mind if things changed. And you don't know that the person in question was fired. All you know is that he left, unless you happen to be in the same room with Mason Malmuth and him when they discussed the issue in question.

That said, the subject of the modding of B&M has been discussed to death. This isn't the place for it. Move on.

Because someone with the power to make a thread a sticky in this forum decided this thread should be one. Got a problem with that?

Haha this.

The reason that the moderation discussion thread is not stickied in B&M is because people asked in the thread itself for it to not be stickied. They said it was easy to miss if it's stickied. I didn't understand the full extent of what they meant until I started using the mobile app.

It's linked in a sticky thread that every user has to read before posting, so that should suffice. But if you'd rather have it stickied again, bring it up in the thread.

And of course if you want to discuss B&M moderation, discuss it in the B&M moderation thread.

Are admins or mods able to read pm's sent through two plus two?

this is why mdt shouldnt be a sticky. its unbumpable.

Green mods don't have that ability. I'm confident about that. My understanding is that at least some red admins can read PMs sent if they wish. They don't wish to unless required. It shouldn't be a surprise that any email you send is reviewable by someone who owns/manages the site you sent it from.

ok. that would explain it. I think you know the thead I am speaking of.... Thx.