"Is This a Douchebag Move" Containment Thread

[AlanBostick]

Yabbut if you want to play short with other regulars who play short, it really, really helps to not have a reputation for buttoning people consistently when you pick up.

In mid-to-high-stakes games there is a substantial etiquette that has grown around getting out of a three- or four-handed game. If you want to play in those games, you will do well to learn it.

[pfapfap]

While I fully agree with you, Alan, do you really think someone with that attitude will ever make it to mid-to-high-stakes games?

[NuklearWinter]

Last night I bluffed a handicap guy (with a friend helping him move chips / read cards) and showed my 47offsuit. Douchebag move?

[jrr63]

Originally Posted by NuklearWinter

Last night I bluffed a handicap guy (with a friend helping him move chips / read cards) and showed my 47offsuit. Douchebag move?

Depends on the guy you bluffed in my view. If he's basically a helpless neophyte I'd say why would you do that? But I gather this was in Arizona? If it was a guy named George (mostly plays in Tucson) who has ALS (lou gehrig disease) he'd just laugh it off and say good play.

[torq]

Years ago I was playing late night/early morning hours at a room with only one consolidated table left running 2/5. It is one decent player, seven casual players and myself. Besides one of the casuals having a stack of ~50bb's the shortest stack is 250bb's and a total of ~20k on the table. I cover almost everyone.

Directly behind me is two guys waiting for a seat and having a poker themed conversation. It is obvious that they are both internet players and most likely 2+2ers. My impression from their conversation is that their level of play would be substantially better than that of the current table. One of the casuals leaves and is replaced by one of the likely 2+2ers.

The 2+2er immediately asks if we can bump to 5/10. The dealer/floor man says only if no one objects. One casual objects so game stays at 2/5. 2+2er then asks if he can buy in for 2k (400bb) and dealer says only if no one objects. I wait a little while and silence. I speak up and say that I am not ok with that and would prefer to play by the house cap rules. Nothing else is said about it and 2+2er buys in for 500.

The sole reason I spoke up is that I wanted his play to have the least impact on the current game as possible. I also realized that since the other likely 2+2er player would also be joining soon, this decision would basically be x2. If I had perceived him as a casual player, I would not have said anything.

Am I a douchebag for basing the decision on my perception of his playing ability?

[pfapfap]

Not in the slightest.

Goes to show how a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. These self-centered "must talk poker and analyze every play at the table" types are smart enough to understand the basic math, but not smart enough to realize how this talk hurts them, and hurts the game. Right here is a prime example.

[AlanBostick]

Originally Posted by torq

Years ago I was playing late night/early morning hours at a room with only one consolidated table left running 2/5. It is one decent player, seven casual players and myself. Besides one of the casuals having a stack of ~50bb's the shortest stack is 250bb's and a total of ~20k on the table. I cover almost everyone.

Directly behind me is two guys waiting for a seat and having a poker themed conversation. It is obvious that they are both internet players and most likely 2+2ers. My impression from their conversation is that their level of play would be substantially better than that of the current table. One of the casuals leaves and is replaced by one of the likely 2+2ers.

The 2+2er immediately asks if we can bump to 5/10. The dealer/floor man says only if no one objects. One casual objects so game stays at 2/5. 2+2er then asks if he can buy in for 2k (400bb) and dealer says only if no one objects. I wait a little while and silence. I speak up and say that I am not ok with that and would prefer to play by the house cap rules. Nothing else is said about it and 2+2er buys in for 500.

The sole reason I spoke up is that I wanted his play to have the least impact on the current game as possible. I also realized that since the other likely 2+2er player would also be joining soon, this decision would basically be x2. If I had perceived him as a casual player, I would not have said anything.

Am I a douchebag for basing the decision on my perception of his playing ability?

No.

[Pyramid_Scam]

Here is one:

Let's say this particular player always fails to put out his big blind in a timely fashion and then proceeds to turbo muck his cards thinking he is UTG or something-would it be a douchebag move for the dealer to muck his hand and not kind of push his cards back to him and inform him he is the big blind?

Assume no further action has taken place and their isn't a developed muck pile yet. If yes, would it be different IYO if it was a tournament?

[pfapfap]

No matter how a player behaves, the dealer should treat everybody with a base level of courtesy and respect.

In a cash game, I do not deal a hand unless I know the person wants the BB. If it's a power-mucker, I'm careful to remind him. If he snaps at me, oh well. It's my job to help, even the difficult people. My role is to ensure people act in turn, and have clear access to information at the table. If someone doesn't realize he's the BB, then I have failed.

[The Palimax]

Originally Posted by NuklearWinter

Last night I bluffed a handicap guy (with a friend helping him move chips / read cards) and showed my 47offsuit. Douchebag move?

If he's mentally capable of being at the table, then you showing the 4-7 is no different from showing anyone else.

While I certainly think he deserves some extra considerations, playing against him with sub-optimal strategy is not one of them.

Score this one "not any more or less douchebag" than normal.

[High Time John]

I glad to see all these douche bag moves are finally contained.

[AlanBostick]

In our dreams, John, in our dreams.

[MitchL]

Originally Posted by pfapfap

Douchey to the players? No.

As a dealer, I'd rather you break a table right before the push. The dealer may have just come off a break, and now a broken table means s/he won't get a new assignment for another 30-40 minutes. Whereas if you break the table 5-10 minutes before the end of the down, the dealer may get re-routed immediately.

Lol, if you think a dealer should ever factor into a quitting decision. I wonder if you are ever going to get it into your head that your in the customer service industry, players are not there to ensure that your job runs smoothly. In customer service there are many situations you are not going to like, but you signed up for the job, nobody forced you to. If you think poker players (who are generally lazy and terribly mannered people when in a casino) are going to change their habits to meet your needs you are sadly mistaken and are wasting a lot of time and energy that could be spent elsewhere to improve your bottom line.

[pfapfap]

Originally Posted by MitchL

your in the customer service industry, players are not there to ensure that your job runs smoothly. In customer service there are many situations you are not going to like, but you signed up for the job, nobody forced you to.

Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. I think if you saw me deal, you would change your tone. I am there to serve the player, whatever that entails. I do not resent this; in fact I enjoy the challenge of adapting to individual player needs while serving the table as a whole. Players and other dealers often joke that I smile too much. I respect the game. I like my customers. I love my job.

Originally Posted by MitchL

If you think poker players (who are generally lazy and terribly mannered people when in a casino) are going to change their habits to meet your needs you are sadly mistaken and are wasting a lot of time and energy that could be spent elsewhere to improve your bottom line.

I don't expect at all. But what's the harm in having a conversation about it? You'll see in the other thread that many players agreed with stuff you found lolhilarious. You're right, people can be lazy and terribly mannered in a casino. But I don't think they intend to be. I merely offer an additional perspective, people are free to open themselves to it or not. This particular comment was a one-off, not a decree.

I don't mean to come off as complaining, so thank you that I'm being read that way. I'll try to keep an eye on that in the future. When I talk with other dealers, I try to present the player perspective, help them not be so uptight over all this minor stuff. So when I talk to players, I give the dealer perspective. Most players choose to work with me, because they understand that I'm trying to serve them. Some choose not to cooperate. A small minority choose to hinder. Regardless, I enjoy my job.

[MitchL]

Originally Posted by pfapfap

Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. I think if you saw me deal, you would change your tone. I am there to serve the player, whatever that entails. I do not resent this; in fact I enjoy the challenge of adapting to individual player needs while serving the table as a whole. Players and other dealers often joke that I smile too much. I respect the game. I like my customers. I love my job.



I don't expect at all. But what's the harm in having a conversation about it? You'll see in the other thread that many players agreed with stuff you found lolhilarious. You're right, people can be lazy and terribly mannered in a casino. But I don't think they intend to be. I merely offer an additional perspective, people are free to open themselves to it or not. This particular comment was a one-off, not a decree.

I don't mean to come off as complaining, so thank you that I'm being read that way. I'll try to keep an eye on that in the future. When I talk with other dealers, I try to present the player perspective, help them not be so uptight over all this minor stuff. So when I talk to players, I give the dealer perspective. Most players choose to work with me, because they understand that I'm trying to serve them. Some choose not to cooperate. A small minority choose to hinder. Regardless, I enjoy my job.

I have no doubt you are a good dealer, and I rarely if ever have a problem with a dealer, even the bad ones, I just kind of get tired of the shilling in this forum and a lot of times your posts come off that way regardless of their intent. I admit that a lot for your suggestions are helpful in speeding up the game, and I do whatever I can to speed up the game, but a lot of fish dont see the value in a fast-pace game and they are not your target audience here nor are they ever gonna change. They are also probably the main reason a game isnt going fast enough.