So here's the deal on this past weekend I decided to drive out to a casino in Louisiana and grind out some hours in some 2/5 NL games there. I play quite often about every other weekend and do very well.

I got to the casino around 3:00 pm on Friday. On Friday evening about 5:30 a friend and old room mate texted me and said "hey I know it's unlikely but Me and 2 of my friends are coming out, do you want to chop the bad beat 4 ways if we hit it" I said "sure we can chop it". Ok right after that I asked where they were at cuz I was concerned about what if I hit it right now. He said 30 min out so I wasn't too concerned about it.

Fast forward I stayed the night by myself as I usually do at the casino and I left the poker room around 11 pm having grinded all day and up $4k. Said my good byes to them and went to sleep.

Get up on Saturday and order some breakfast at the room and plan on going down around 12-1230 to jump on a game and grind for the day on Saturday. My old room mate texted me right before and asked if I wanted to go to a restaurant to eat. I said no I just ate and went downstairs to play.

They were stayin in a hotel off the casino property and going out to eat before coming to play that day.

I grabbed a seat and about 20 Mins into it hit the bad beat jackpot QQ>88. I had the QQ so I won a 1/4 of the total jackpot.

These friends didn't show up to the poker room until 30 min after the bad beat was hit and didn't get a seat for another several mins.

We all agreed that the details weren't ironed out and I'm not responsible to pay their portions. But they are still upset and of course feel they should have been paid.

I of course disagree that they weren't even on property and/or didn't have chips on the table so they don't get paid. I would not have expected to be paid if they hit it at midnight the night before and I was sleeping...

Also I've done this before with them and when I've jump onto a 5/10 NL game where the bad beat is not valid I've been told by these guys that the bad beat is off for me if I switch games. Same thing with Omaha in the past...

What does the 2+2 community think?

Thanks in advance everyone...

I think that in as much as in the past they made it clear that when you weren;t playing in a bad beat eligible game that you were not in the pool wit them .... that should apply here as well .....

Now buy them dinner.

The bigger picture is that this is why you shouldn't have informal agreements with friends. You end up pitting your brain against your heart.

In this case, psandman has it dead on - past actions have made it clear only people eligible are sharing. If they weren't playing, they don't get a share.

They should be happy for you and you should treat them with your money.

I wouldn't give them any of it. Like you said. If you aren't playing in an eligible game you don't get any portion of it when your buddies win.

If they aren't even in the poker room they don't get any of it.

"remind" them about this. if you were off-property out eating somewhere and it hit, would THEY pay you? they can't have it both ways.

OP, you are right in the particulars. However, you've lost a friend for life. If they are disappointed, this will burn in them for years. I guess neither one of you believed the friendship was worth more than 3/16 of a BBJ, so perhaps it is for the best to know now and move on.

This will test how much of a "friend" they really were anyway. A real friend will understand the details of the agreement and be happy for you because you know they won't share if it was them.

Yeah my old room mate says he understands and is not really upset. He's upset that he was unlucky to be out eating when I hit it. And he's not gonna argue with me about it. I mean hell me and him hung out the next day at a shindig at my house for the Super Bowl.

Now the other 2 guys are friends although not nearly as close as me and my old room mate obviously.

They are less understanding I think and may feel a little burned. Hopefully they will get over it and realize that they shouldn't get paid as they were not there.

Thanks for all the opinions and please keep them coming. I would love to get as might feedback as possible guys!

I think you're past the point of arguing whether the rules you set out were sufficient to deal with whether or not you'd split the BBJ while they weren't playing. You all seem to agree. The question now is just whether the friendships or the money are more important to you. That's a tough one, because I would expect from your comments that you'd say your friendship with your former roommate is worth keeping and the other two are probably not worth as much as the money to you. But if you only pay out one friend, then you'll cost him those friendships too.

My recommendation would be to cut off a smaller portion for each of them. A buy in or two to their typical game might do it. Then you gain a reputation as not just someone who sticks to the rules, but someone who also cares about his friends and would take care of them even if there was no agreement to split under any circumstance. Since you probably didn't take the BBJ into your calculations when playing, giving some up isn't really a loss and if any of them ever hit the BBJ, whether you have a split agreement or not they will probably cut you in.

Not really sure why I would have to choose between money or keeping them as friends? If the conditions of the agreement weren't clear and/or were not met then why should I be the one who chooses whether we stay friends?

I would obviously like to stay friends With them all. But I'm not going to give into something that's just not right to do so...

As has already been said if they are dump me as a friend over something like this then I guess our friendship must not have meant that much to them.

I'm firmly in the "don't pay them" camp. They weren't in the game, ergo they were not eligible, just as you wouldn't have been eligible if one of them had hit it while you were playing $5/$10 or in your room sleeping. Taking them out for a nice dinner and drinks or something might be nice of you, but that's entirely your call.

There are always going to be people who think they deserve a piece of others' good fortune. A story like this shows up in the news every so ofte, with people who would've/could've/should've won a big lottery payout, but their friend did instead. Then they try to shake him down for it, on whatever basis seems most convincing. Bottom line, though, they missed out and are bitter about it.

I hope that this serves as a lesson to avoid informal deals with friends and acquaintances, or to at least specify all details before you put money on the line.

As much as everyone makes fun of corporate lawyers, you have to realize all they really do is the legal equivalent of this thread.

It gets nitty.

What happens if all four players are in the room and "playing" but one guy goes to the bathroom for a hand and his table hits the BBJ? If nothing, then what prevents someone from lobbying excessively to freeroll his friends on the BBJ?

What happens if a portion of the winnings is withheld? Does it come out of all shares equally? What happens when the four sharers have different tax liabilities?

What happens if one player is tighter than the others, reducing their probability of hitting the BBJ?

What if one guy is cashing out from 2/5 for 5/10, but while in transit the BBJ hits? What if he had folded his last hand but the hand had not concluded when he left? What if he had folded his last hand but was still at the table racking? Where do you draw the line?

These sorts of crazy contingencies are the backbone of a good agreement, but doing this with friends feels ridiculous.

Which is why having an agreement to share a jackpot is also ridiculous. Just don't do it to begin with, and you will have no issues.

Maybe I read this wrong or just want to disagree but i read it as you guys went for te weekend and knowing you would all be playing whenever and wherever that if someone hit it you would all split it as to make the trip better


I would take it that way because it would not make sense if you all had to be playing 2/5 at te same table to get shares almost seems like your missing the point, if you all agree to split and your all taking shifts playing then you have a better chance of splitting.

I play a lot with 3-4 of my friends so maybe thats why i see it this way because it would make more sense for us to be playing kinda of set hours as to not have overlapping hands. and when we go to tahoe or vegas thats how we would take it is the trip combined not set times of playing.

Although these are your friends and you went into agreement with them so its like a business if you were all partners and friends and someone isnt working as hard or as many hours it shouldn't be some new info you learned about them from being friends for years

Yes, you should reread OP...

Reread and am not sure how you guys who were obviously not on the same schedule would even think of making a deal about splitting money. So the deal was all three of you had to be playing at the same time and hit a hand that is made to be very rarely hit yet from the sound of this you guys didn't play together all weekend or make an effort to. I also feel its money> friends or friends> money on what type of person you are.
I've dropped a few c notes to a friend after a situation we had in vegas just cus he felt like i was out to take his money when hat wasn't the case. We still ended up as less of friends just because of the situation and the timing of when it happened.

But like stated before either these are friends you like and would like to keep or just friends you had and now won't

You weren't concerned the night before when you thought they'd be arriving in 30 minutes. So were you expecting to pay them if it hit during that time? If you were, then I don't see the difference with them arriving 30 minutes after it was hit the next morning.

Did you make it clear to them when you called it a night on the evening before that if the BBJ hit, you weren't expecting a cut?

To answer your question I never even worry about the bad beat while I'm playing. I usually play 8-1200 hours per year and never hit it or been at a table it's been hit. I didn't even know how much it was for when I hit it here.

So I was like whatever I won't hit it within 30 min of when they asked me on Friday evening. And I WOULD NOT have paid them if I would have hit it when they weren't there yet on Friday either.... Just wish I woulda made that clear that evening obviously.

And to answer your other question, no nothing was ever said about the bad beat again. Until it was hit the next day. The thing is I wasn't even sure if I was staying Saturday yet or If I was going home or what. And I wasn't sure what they were doing either. I wouldn't have expected to be paid if I didn't have money on an eligible game... Whether asleep or what. As per the previous times we've done this.

Would I have been upset at first and felt a lil burned if this had happened to me? Probably. Would I have gotten over it and realize I shouldn't have been paid? Absolutely.

"Look guys, obviously you're hurt and you feel slighted about this but let me explain because I want to make sure that you don't think I'm some welcher or just some dirtbag that can't be trusted. Not at ALL":

"In the past, when we made agreements to chop up the BBJ, if either of us were to hit it, you all said and agreed that if I(you) were playing at a table which was not BBJ eligable(ie; $5/10 nl or Omaha), that I wouldn't be cut in on the deal. AND, I had no problem with that; why should any of you cut me in on it if I had ZERO chance of hitting it? Well, the same should apply for when any one of us is not in the room; I mean, how are you any more eligable while you're in bed than I was when I was playing in that Omaha game last month? The ZERO chance of hitting the BBJ are equal. So, guys, please try to understand because it's the only right thing to do here. Seriously guys, it's the only fair thing to do even though at this present time, you're a little bummed. Just don't mistaken feeling "bummed" with being slighted, because I would never do that. And, just because I feel bad about the misunderstanding, allow me to take y'all out for dinner and drinks...but don't rake me over the coals(lol)!... Are we cool?"

That's what I would say.

They're your friends. Do they deserve a cut of the BBJ? Per the agreement, they do not. But you can still do whatever makes you happy. But whatever you decide, remember, they do deserve a sincere and heartfelt explanation from you because they are your friends. And you'll feel better about it, too, otherwise you're just gonna get all stewed up thinking, "gosh damn it, Jimmy wouldn't have given me a nickel if things were reversed, what a load of crap that I'm to blame here and feel bad."

Just make sure the air gets cleared, that's all. Now go and enjoy your good fortune.

OK. You and I come at this from the same place. I don't play for the BBJ, either. And, if I was in an arrangement like the one you were in (not likely because these things have a way of causing headaches), I would not expect to be paid if it got hit while I was away.

But if I understand this correctly, you are a regular and the other guys are recreational players. Which means playing to hit the BBJ is part of the fun of poker for them. Why else would they have called you from the car to make the agreement, right?

So Judge Judy rules that you, as the experienced player, should have spelled out the rules of the arrangement to the other guys ahead of time. They, as recreational players, wouldn't have thought of some of the nuances of it. It seems that three out of the four in the group thought you were all in it together, all out to have fun, regardless of who was playing when/if the BBJ got hit. Ruling for the plaintiff.

To be fair these guys are just as much regulars as I am. A few even played for a living for a small amount of time. I have a regular job and supplement my income with poker. We have all been playing around the same games locally as well as out of town for several years.

And I hate arrangements like this as well. Not sure why I agreed at the time. I just never think it's really going to happen so I don't worry about it.

Lesson learned. I'm not swapping any action with anyone ever again.

In that case, the decision is reversed.

I know some players who have permanent agreements to share promotion money won. But yours was a one-off situation and it should be commonly understood that the agreement applies only when you are all playing. Enjoy the money.

Your losing your audience

You have done this before so you cant hate it that much and i just dont see any way out of this as you being the good guy in your group of friends or around the places you all play together so have fun being looked at differently and labeled for pulling this in their eyes.

I feel like you want to have everyone agree with you so you can feel better about you not paying them because you didn't ask what you should do since you already decided to not give them money

As far as I'm concerned if they don't get over it and try to make me out to look like a crook it would be bad for them. They would look foolish. I'm not too worried about how I look to people in our little poker world. Everybody I've talked to in the poker community and outside with the exception of you seems to think on the same basis as me. Not at an eligible table then not eligible for the BBJ chop.

And of course I don't want to be the bad guy and of course I want to feel I am making the right decision. So obviously I want people to see it my way. Otherwise this thread would not exist.

But I have not tried to sway anyone's opinion and didn't even reply to the post until questions were asked. I just told it how it happened and what was said/done.