CarbonPoker.ag Tournament Improvement Thread

[CarbonChris]

Originally Posted by IBGrindin

These should run non stop imo. when one starts another opens. i would play these non stop when I dont have time for MTTs. Still hoping to see some $22 and $33 MTT freezeout satties to the 100K as well. I love the fact you are implementing these ideas so quickly though.

I also dont think tourneys should start at :15 past. either :00 or :30 imo. just doesnt seem right that the largest med stake freezeout $33 6.5k starts at 19:15.

Again, there are 3 very nice medium stake tournaments withing 15 mins of each other ($11 2.5k, $11r 2.5k and the $33 6.5k all start at 19:00-19:15). I think moving the $11r 2.5k or the $33 6.5k to 18:00 would be awesome since there are no tournaments running at that time anyways and these are deeper stacked tournaments which take longer to run. Please give this a chance.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully they can run with some real frequency of the demand is there.

[jdawg91]

Originally Posted by tyson219

Some of this is repetitive of last week, but I'll add it here in the new thread for completeness. Thanks for pushing for these changes.

New Tournaments:
--$22, $33 and/or $55 Turbo freezeout in the evening (anytime between 18:00 and 23:00)
--$22 or $33 turbo freezeout at 01:00 (will compliment the 30 2r/1a well)
--$5 unlimited rebuy in the evening (either add or replace 1 of the 3rs)
--$50 (or $60) Sunday Special with a large guarantee w/15 or 20 minute blinds
--$50 (or $60) Nightly special with a large guarantee w/15 or 20 minute blinds. The $50 nightly on Stars/Tilt used to attract a large number of players and with satties, this could really take off.
--Satellites to the $60 mtts, especially if you add a Sunday and/or weeknight special

Tournament Changes:
--Agree with above, either change the $109 second chance to a 1r/1a or make it a freezeout. However, don't agree with changing the stack sizes.
--With 2r1a tournaments, please allow players to take both rebuys at the start. Currently, it's a 1r1a with an additional 1r available if you drop below the starting stack. Industry norm with 2r1a's is to allow both rebuys from the start
--Standardize starting stacks. Starting stack sizes are all over the place. Stacks start at 1500, 2k, 2.5k, 3k, 4k and 5k. Have some consistency (1500, 3k and 5k for deep stacks)
--Increase the starting stack in the 20:00 $60 freezeout

Payout structure
--Too many players get paid at certain jumps in the number of entrants. Paying 36 for tournaments with just over 200 people really flattens the prizes at the Final Table
As it stands, up to 200 entrants is ok. I propose:
200-249: 27
250-349: 36
350-500: 45
--There are a few tournaments (as pointed out above with the nightowl) where the jump from 2nd to 1st is smaller than the jump from 3rd to 2nd. This makes no sense at all. I can provide all the tournaments I've seen this in if it helps.

Blind Structure:
--Earlier antes
--Additional blind levels post-antes to allow for more play deep in tournaments.
--A group of us can propose something that about 20-30 MTT regs generally agree with if that's helpful

Rebuys:
--Allow players to rebuy BEFORE the first hand
--Allow players to rebuy AFTER the last hand prior to the addon

Other:
--Maybe this is a client issue, but I'll post here since its MTT specific. Remove the table change timer. It's really irritating. Just move the player and have a box pop up that states a move has occurred.
--Similar to above, when moved to a new table there are no blinds/chips visible, no matter what position the player is in. This has caused some large issues for certain people, especially if moved into the blinds.
--Allow observer chat please
--This has been discussed enough, but for sake of completeness, fix the hand for hand and hand history replayer.

This entire post is the nuts

[thegroupie]

Originally Posted by tyson219

Some of this is repetitive of last week, but I'll add it here in the new thread for completeness. Thanks for pushing for these changes.

New Tournaments:
--$22, $33 and/or $55 Turbo freezeout in the evening (anytime between 18:00 and 23:00)
--$22 or $33 turbo freezeout at 01:00 (will compliment the 30 2r/1a well)
--$5 unlimited rebuy in the evening (either add or replace 1 of the 3rs)
--$50 (or $60) Sunday Special with a large guarantee w/15 or 20 minute blinds
--$50 (or $60) Nightly special with a large guarantee w/15 or 20 minute blinds. The $50 nightly on Stars/Tilt used to attract a large number of players and with satties, this could really take off.
--Satellites to the $60 mtts, especially if you add a Sunday and/or weeknight special

Tournament Changes:
--Agree with above, either change the $109 second chance to a 1r/1a or make it a freezeout. However, don't agree with changing the stack sizes.
--With 2r1a tournaments, please allow players to take both rebuys at the start. Currently, it's a 1r1a with an additional 1r available if you drop below the starting stack. Industry norm with 2r1a's is to allow both rebuys from the start
--Standardize starting stacks. Starting stack sizes are all over the place. Stacks start at 1500, 2k, 2.5k, 3k, 4k and 5k. Have some consistency (1500, 3k and 5k for deep stacks)
--Increase the starting stack in the 20:00 $60 freezeout

Payout structure
--Too many players get paid at certain jumps in the number of entrants. Paying 36 for tournaments with just over 200 people really flattens the prizes at the Final Table
As it stands, up to 200 entrants is ok. I propose:
200-249: 27
250-349: 36
350-500: 45
--There are a few tournaments (as pointed out above with the nightowl) where the jump from 2nd to 1st is smaller than the jump from 3rd to 2nd. This makes no sense at all. I can provide all the tournaments I've seen this in if it helps.

Blind Structure:
--Earlier antes
--Additional blind levels post-antes to allow for more play deep in tournaments.
--A group of us can propose something that about 20-30 MTT regs generally agree with if that's helpful

Rebuys:
--Allow players to rebuy BEFORE the first hand
--Allow players to rebuy AFTER the last hand prior to the addon

Other:
--Maybe this is a client issue, but I'll post here since its MTT specific. Remove the table change timer. It's really irritating. Just move the player and have a box pop up that states a move has occurred.
--Similar to above, when moved to a new table there are no blinds/chips visible, no matter what position the player is in. This has caused some large issues for certain people, especially if moved into the blinds.
--Allow observer chat please
--This has been discussed enough, but for sake of completeness, fix the hand for hand and hand history replayer.

Originally Posted by jdawg91

This entire post is the nuts

x100000!

CarbonChris, do everything tyson says IMO.

[IBGrindin]

Originally Posted by CarbonChris

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully they can run with some real frequency of the demand is there.

Any chance you will be looking into moving a couple of the tournaments around I mentioned?

[SkinnyStax]

lovin the new rebuy fixes and the 750 gtd $5. add more guarantees!

[thegroupie]

OOh I see a bunch of super turbo satellites up now. Great work getting some of the new suggestions up and running so quickly.

I will probably play some, but I'm wondering if you've considered implementing a tournament $ system like Pokerstars/FTP. If I see a satellite where I could win a $33 coupon or a $109 coupon or whatever, it isn't that enticing because maybe I don't necessarily want to buy into a tournament for that specific buyin level.

However, if I could play a satellite where the prize was general Tournament Dollars, rather than a coupon to a specific buyin level, it would be AWESOME. I understand that part of the idea of satellites is to meet the guarantees for specific tournaments like the Daily High Roller, but then you are mostly going to have people entering the satellite who are planning to play that tournament anyway.

If there was the option of converting the coupons to T$ that could be used in any tournament, you'd still get people satelliting in who WILL play the specific tournament the satellite is for, but then you'd get lots of other people who might play the sats in order to accumulate T$ to use in other tournaments on the site. This is win/win IMO because it = more traffic and more rake for you

[CarbonChris]

Originally Posted by tyson219

Some of this is repetitive of last week, but I'll add it here in the new thread for completeness. Thanks for pushing for these changes.

New Tournaments:
--$22, $33 and/or $55 Turbo freezeout in the evening (anytime between 18:00 and 23:00)
--$22 or $33 turbo freezeout at 01:00 (will compliment the 30 2r/1a well)
--$5 unlimited rebuy in the evening (either add or replace 1 of the 3rs)
--$50 (or $60) Sunday Special with a large guarantee w/15 or 20 minute blinds
--$50 (or $60) Nightly special with a large guarantee w/15 or 20 minute blinds. The $50 nightly on Stars/Tilt used to attract a large number of players and with satties, this could really take off.
--Satellites to the $60 mtts, especially if you add a Sunday and/or weeknight special

Tournament Changes:
--Agree with above, either change the $109 second chance to a 1r/1a or make it a freezeout. However, don't agree with changing the stack sizes.
--With 2r1a tournaments, please allow players to take both rebuys at the start. Currently, it's a 1r1a with an additional 1r available if you drop below the starting stack. Industry norm with 2r1a's is to allow both rebuys from the start
--Standardize starting stacks. Starting stack sizes are all over the place. Stacks start at 1500, 2k, 2.5k, 3k, 4k and 5k. Have some consistency (1500, 3k and 5k for deep stacks)
--Increase the starting stack in the 20:00 $60 freezeout

Payout structure
--Too many players get paid at certain jumps in the number of entrants. Paying 36 for tournaments with just over 200 people really flattens the prizes at the Final Table
As it stands, up to 200 entrants is ok. I propose:
200-249: 27
250-349: 36
350-500: 45
--There are a few tournaments (as pointed out above with the nightowl) where the jump from 2nd to 1st is smaller than the jump from 3rd to 2nd. This makes no sense at all. I can provide all the tournaments I've seen this in if it helps.

Blind Structure:
--Earlier antes
--Additional blind levels post-antes to allow for more play deep in tournaments.
--A group of us can propose something that about 20-30 MTT regs generally agree with if that's helpful

Rebuys:
--Allow players to rebuy BEFORE the first hand
--Allow players to rebuy AFTER the last hand prior to the addon

Other:
--Maybe this is a client issue, but I'll post here since its MTT specific. Remove the table change timer. It's really irritating. Just move the player and have a box pop up that states a move has occurred.
--Similar to above, when moved to a new table there are no blinds/chips visible, no matter what position the player is in. This has caused some large issues for certain people, especially if moved into the blinds.
--Allow observer chat please
--This has been discussed enough, but for sake of completeness, fix the hand for hand and hand history replayer.

Originally Posted by jdawg91

This entire post is the nuts

Originally Posted by thegroupie

x100000!

CarbonChris, do everything tyson says IMO.

Wow, this is amazing tyson219. All of these points are currently being reviewed now and I will try to have specific update for these very soon.

Thank you very much for the long and detailed post. It is greatly appreciated.

[SkinnyStax]

A hand history replayer like pokerstars would be awesome. or at least the plain text that can be copy and pasted quickly to clipboard. Also agree on the moving table timer being removed.

[suchsickaments]

Noticed some changes to the schedule. $80 rebuy is now a 2500 chip addon which is great!

The $100 is now a 1rebuy1addon which is awesome, but does it have to be that big? With 15,000 chips this tournament is going to last for ages. Really think it should be smaller amounts with the introduction of an addon.

Addon is usually something rewarded to players who make it to the end of a rebuy period, and it doesn't add much when it is the same size as the buyin/rebuy imo. How about 3500 starting chips/3500 rebuy and a 5k addon? That seems like the perfect amount for a tournament like this imo. It would let people know that the addon is more valuable then a buyin or rebuy so would make it more inciting for people to purchase it.


Thanks for listening to us! Really awesome to see how proactive your team is at improvements. Hope to make some more contributions later.

[TruFloridaGator]

We need to do something for SNG MTTs. They are miserable on Merge which makes 0 sense. I think adding some other buy-ins, more registering at once will increase viability a bit, getting them to load faster.

Chris, any other smaller SNG/STT offerings in the works?

[tyson219]

Payouts:
--High Roller paid 10 spots last night even though it was switched to a 9 person table. Should pay 9 and hand for hand should start at 10 or 11 people and go until FT reached.
--Payouts in tournaments that pay 5 spots are incorrect.

55r/75r - jump from 3rd to 2nd is less than 2nd to 1st. This should be reversed. Also, the pay jump from 5th to 4th and 4th to 3rd is the exact same. Moving up a spot should gain you at least a little extra.

55r:
1st 3128
2nd 2433
3rd 1477
4th 1043
5th 608

75r
1st 3132
2nd 2436
3rd 1479
4th 1044
5th 609

2nd chance the jump from 4th to 3rd is greater than 3rd to 2nd.
2nd chance
1st 2040
2nd 1440
3rd 1140
4th 780
5th 600

As a percentage, I think something like the following would be ideal:
1st 35%
2nd 25%
3rd 18%
4th 13%
5th 9%

Regarding adding a $5 rebuy -- a $5 6max rebuy (non turbo) would be amazing.

Thanks Chris.

[mjcace]

-More Turbo Mtts! A nightly $60 or $10r/8r turbo, Just look how stars has them spread out all over there schedule(not comparing CP to PS), many players dont register normal tourneys because of time restraints. They will fill if you guys can add them.

- I think it may be kinda tough but if it isn't a bi weekly turbo night would be cool.

-A Sunday deep stacked Turbo would be awesome with like 5k or 10k starting chips with fast structure.

-A sunday plo tourney would be great addition if you guys can offer decent gtd that will get reached, idk maybe a $60 or $109

-Can we please change the Merge time to EST? idk why it is in central timezone. It would be cool if we could have an option to make our client show us tourney times in the timezone we are in, also 12 hour with AM/PM would be better then 24 hour imo(to much maths lol)

+1, suchsickaments makes good points itt

[jdawg91]

Originally Posted by TruFloridaGator

We need to do something for SNG MTTs. They are miserable on Merge which makes 0 sense. I think adding some other buy-ins, more registering at once will increase viability a bit, getting them to load faster.

Chris, any other smaller SNG/STT offerings in the works?

Honestly TFG, if we can't get 10 man's to load quicker, then how do you expect to get 18s+ to pop?

Don't read into this as me being a dick to you, because im not trying to be

[mglnow]

Not sure if these have been posted, or if they belong in the Client Feedback thread instead but I think the mtt rebuy system could use some tweaks. These are my suggestions.

Allow players who rebuy before the first hand is dealt to receive their chips immediately. It's annoying when you win a tiny pot the first hand and can't rebuy.

Allow instant double rebuys instead of making players rebuy, play one hand, then rebuy again.

Allow players to rebuy before the add-on takes effect during the break. As it stands now if you lose your stack in the last hand before the add-on, you can rebuy once and add-on, but if you try to make a second rebuy it doesn't take effect until after the add-on does. Which means are you now above the starting stack and your rebuy gets canceled.

Allow players to add-on immediately when the break starts, before all tables have finished. Or add an auto add-on checkbox. Sometimes you are "waiting for other tables to finish" before the break officially starts for several minutes. You can't add on during this time. This is troublesome if you know you might take longer than the 5 minutes to get back. You have to choose between waiting until you can add-on to make sure you get it, thus wasting 2 or 3 minutes of your break...or going on break immediately but risk missing the add-on if you're not back in time.


On an unrelated note I think hand for hand is used to much. Sure on the money and FT bubble its fine, but sometimes I notice being stuck in hand for hand with like 22 players left when 36 were paid. The blind timer ticks away while you wait so the blinds get ridiculous pretty quickly while you play so few hands.
What exactly are the rules for when it goes hand for hand?

Another suggestion is add a "Starting Stack:" to the list in each tournament lobby.

I also agree that not only should the moving table timer not exist, but something should be done about the pop up messages for being eliminated and winning bounties. When in multiple tables they pop up on the currently selected table, which can be a distraction at times.

Hope these make sense and I don't sound to nit picky.

[wild will]

Originally Posted by mglnow

Allow players who rebuy before the first hand is dealt to receive their chips immediately. It's annoying when you win a tiny pot the first hand and can't rebuy.

Allow instant double rebuys instead of making players rebuy, play one hand, then rebuy again.

both of these please