Check out episode 3 of Michigan Poker Monster for details, but Palace Poker Room in Burton spreads $0.50/$1 nlhe regularly.

I also like triple draw low ball, so let's negotiate when we start talking about the mix.

Not sure I understand about the difference between 4/8 and 5/10. Can you elaborate please?

i've played there multiple times and i've never seen them offer .50/1, but i know they run .25/.50 (maybe that's what you were thinking)

Sorry. Went back and checked. Yes, 25c/50c nlhe.

Typically $4/8 plays in $1 chips, so it's a 4 chip / 8 chip structure. $5/10 plays in $5 chips, so it's a 1 chip / 2 chip structure. Having lots of chips in the middle makes the game play looser, and the biggest poker rooms have found that 3 chip / 6 chip or 4 chip / 8 chip is pretty close to optimal for limit games.

Mini TR stuff:

Summary: Live poker in Detroit looks healthier than i'd thought, but in NL you do have to practice good game selection.

I've played the $5/10 full kill LO8 at Greektown the past two Saturdays. I'm the guy who keeps bringing white chips to the table, which really pisses off the other players.

They have a point about slowing the game, since it's mixed denoms. The game should really be 4/8 or 6/12 with 4/8 or 3/6 chips structures, then having a lot of chips doesn't slow anything down. I've stopped putting more than 5 or 10 whites into the pot on one hand, but of course the nits don't notice and still think I'm evil. To them heaven is chasing that $50 half-stack of red in the middle, checking every postflop round without the nuts, turning over their hand and seeing who won.

Some dealers don't stack the pot until it's time to push it, and a few are even worse than most of us at reading the board. That slows the game down far more than white chips. Some dealers forget to drop rake, though. In one case they pushed a split pot then asked the players for rake, which I've never seen before and thought was outrageous.

Play is loose passive with occasional semi-maniacs like most live O8 games at similar stakes. 5-7 to most flops, goofy hands shown down, same cold calling as limping range. Occasionally you can work with the maniacs to build a ~5-way capped pot for 19 small bets preflop. Card elimination doesn't matter because half the field isn't playing reasonable O8 hands anyway. Occasionally the game will play tighter for an orbit or two, but so far not long enough for me to leave.

The house gives out coupons for a Tuesday drawing with every flush or better, doesn't have to win, just make it to showdown. Obviously that means they give out a ton of tickets relative to HE.

I was going to go play this game yesterday, since it goes on Tuesdays. I called at 4:30 and it had just broken.

I played a bit of $1-2 and 2-5 NL at Motor City on Saturday midday. It was the day after the monster BBJ hit so of course everyone was talking about it. Everyone said that volume of games was much lighter now; I've only played one Sunday night there so I don't know.

In general I found the games really soft preflop and moderately aggressive post. I think with the fish improving that that's pretty standard now, right? I might have to start cruising the live NL forum here and watching NL training vids so i'm not the fish myself. The 1 game did have some really passive players, though, including one guy who made a classic comment suggesting that he literally never bluffs. (I'll post it on another thread.)

I played a few orbits of $1-2 NL at Greektown while waiting to get in the O8 game. I found it to be terrible for a live game -- lots of chops, my limp/steal bet IP got CRed and i have no idea if i got bluffed out, my button steal got donked into for pot, etc.

It looked like the big PLO game at Greektown broke in the early evening on Sat. Not that i feel remotely rolled to play it (although you can short stack for just $300, right?), haha, but that's interesting to me since that's a game i might want to try working up to.

So far i think i prefer the MC food (subs, pizza after 4, convenient coffee and soft drinks, fruit, trail mix) to Greektown (comps, mixed nuts, cookies, pretzels, hot dogs twice a day), but i haven't used the G's comps yet. I'm sure i'll forget to sign out half the time.

Next goal: work up to the 15 limit RxR. I'm such a jack of all trades, sigh.

Yeah, i'm totally on board with the "teach a man to fish" idea, and i'm willing to read back through all 600+ posts if necessary. However, i didn't see these questions answered in the last ~200 posts, so it would be helpful to know if you meant your post a long way above or if i just overlooked the post you're referring to.

Nevertheless, i know you don't owe me an answer to the questions, let alone repeating one every time it comes up.



I'm inclined to think so. But there are people on here who swear that rake is unbeatable at certain games on occasions where i think they're wrong. I have no idea theoretically, but it seems like when i raise my QQ in the cutoff and get 5 way action at $15 to go, the overlay almost has to be good enough to pay for the rake without considering postflop skills.

And, by the way (haven't seen this so far, scrolling 200-400 posts back), does anyone know of any resources to learn limit Omaha high? I seem to remember Ciaffone or someone may have had a book called Omaha Poker in the 90s that covered it -- will investigate.

Look under Books and Publications forum there is a long thread about the Hwang PLO book. It even has a PLO8 chapter inside.

The first one (The Big Play Game)? I own it. It talks about PLOH, LO8, and PLO8, but not LOH. Thanks, though, i do appreciate the suggestion.

Detroit is the only place i know of where limit Omaha high is still played -- anyone else?

Farha on Omaha has a section on limit Omaha hi. Will you be coming out to our Monday $1/$2 PLO8 game? If anyone wants in, just PM me your number and we'll get a list going, thanks

John L.

What is a book going to teach you about limit Omaha that you can't deduce from

a) Understanding Omaha i.e. reading a book about PLO
b) Understanding limit betting i.e. reading theory of poker/HEPFAP etc.

My answer would be, "practically nothing"...

Yeah, that was my guess too. If it's not too tough a game, i could probably wing it by combining the fundamentals of PLO and of limit poker.

(For example, i'd guess all that structure of a PLO hand like T876 stuff that Hwang talks about is probably a lot less important, because getting freerolled is so much less costly. OTOH, something less connected like J876 might not be worth playing because the ratio of preflop money to payoff is so different.)

But I know that at the first 20 BBet downswing, i'd question my judgment and want some sort of confirmation. Excessive self-doubt has really held back my poker development, and the times i've tried to just keep playing are the times i should have been investing in coaching.

There was a sick RxR game going at the River tonight.. was anyone there?

I regularly play on Tues and Wed in the MC RxR games. If you are worried about roll, the Wed 20-40 game plays smaller then the Tues 15-30 full kill game. The Sat 15-30 which goes to 20-40 on a kill is obviously the smallest of the 3 games. Good luck if you join us.

I was there playing the hi lo game upstairs but checking in on the RxR once in a while. It runs there every day starting around 1pm and runs until midnightish it seems every day

I had the same question. One poster mentioned about the Burton, MI poker room.

If anyone can provide some information about such poker rooms within Detroit Metropoliton Area, that will be highly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Lucky's Poker Room in Flint had a smaller stakes game going when I happened in there this evening. I believe it was $0.25/$0.50 (nlhe obv)

Just a quick mini TR from my venture into the 2/5 world.

Motor City Casino.

Get there about 5:30 pm on Friday afternoon. I inquire about a 2/5nl game. They have 2 running, but both are full. I play 1/2 for about 30 minutes while a spot opens up. about 6:30 they open a new 2/5.

I sit short with about tree fiddy, to get a feel for things. Some of the folks on the new 2/5 came along with me from the 1/2 table. I found the game to be on the nitty side, some short stacks (along with me). Maybe 1 or 2 gambly types.

After an hour of feeling things out, I chip up to the table max. After pl3aying about 3 hours, I cash up about $100. Not too bad for the 1st real shot.

I left, and proceeded North about 40 miles to Legend's, my "home room", where they have 2 1/2nl tables going. After learning of my 2/5 trip, the table decides to switch to a 2/5 for 2 hours at the close of the night. I end up an additional $250 at Legends. I hope we can make this a semi-regular occurance at Legends.

Nice start, MetlEtl! I've got to jump in to that 2/5 pool too. At MCC, you said play was nitty, but how did the players seem to you? Competent? Did people have different leaks than at 1/2? Did it seem like they thought they were better than they were because they were at the 2/5 table?

Thanks for sharing about the experience. That would be great if Legends did start spreading a 2/5 game. Good luck!

Quick trip report from last night - Palace Poker in Burton

Games offered:
2/4 LHE with kill (game goes to 3/6 for kill)
.25/.50 NLHE ($50 max buy in)
1/2 NLHE
3/6 Limit Omaha

I played 2/4 LHE. Action was unbelievably loose - over half the table played any two cards. Pre-flop was usually raised, sometimes capped. Usually 5+ to a flop. Player routinely showed 3rd pair, bottom 2, etc. (and won).

I had AA twice, KK, and QQ, all lost.

The gamboolers did notice that I was not in there mixing up with them all the time.

I'm sure the game is beatable, but it sure is tough when everybody plays everything, you can't put anybody on any type of hand, and all draws are priced correctly due to all the pre-flop raising.

I'll probably try Palace again sometime, maybe the .25/.50 NLHE instead.

I was at Greektown last night for 13-14 hours. Played in a live tourney ($75 buy-in), though a crapshoot when it gets to around 300/600/50.

Jumped into a 1/2 NLHE where the game was pretty soft; too many people went ape**** with AA postflop. One guy to my left sat down with probably ~$60 wearing sunglasses. I hate people who sit down at a 1/2 table wearing sunglasses, but what was funny about this guy was that he didn't even know the rules. Some guy bet $25 and he tried to raise $20 for a total of $45. Dealer told him he can't do that and he was confused. On another hand, there was a button straddle for $5 with a few callers, I popped it to $25 with JJ. Sunglasses boy shoves $71. I call, and he offers a handshake, says "good luck!" and immediately flips over AA. Seriously, who does that? Seemed like a taunt to me.

Towards the end there was a guy trash talking someone else, claiming that he's older and that he's 32, blah blah blah. I wasn't sure if he was drunk or just a total jerk. He was acting like he was 15, and that's when I decided to leave.

The dealers have been saying there are more people in the room now that online poker is pretty much gone in the U.S.

For the most part, they seemed fairly competent. Not a lot of showdowns, so I didn't get the greatest feel for who was getting out of line. There were 2 guys that did seem to play too many hands, and being aggressive most of the way.
I would say, based on this experience, that it was much tighter, and slightly more aggressive. A bit more 3betting, and more folding to aggression.

I've played a bit of $2-5 the last couple of weekends at the MC and didn't find it nitty at all, especially not Sat. night. The usual combination:

• utterly abject players calling 20% of their stack preflop to try to flop a pair in a multiway pot
• mediocre lags who play deep but don't really understand effective stack size of their opponents, but play OK postflop with enough semibluffing to keep one guessing with TP
• set miners
• good TAGs

Presumably you can tell the four personas apart, so just play the top 3 appropriately, more or less avoid the 4th without cards and position, and you'll be fine. I'm not a great NL player by any means and I'm sure the 2/5 is extremely profitable at the key hours.

At 100 BB stacks (and your opponents often with significantly less), if it's wrong to go ape**** with AA postflop then i'd suspect you're misplaying AA. In good live $1-2 games, you should often be able to make it $12-15 to go pre and still get crazy multiway action. With a $60 pot or so, your SPR is just over 3 so you're going to felt aces against anyone but the staunchest "I don't believe in bluffing" tight-passive. Agree/disagree?

It is still going to be profitable to set-mine from any position as long as pots are being 3-bet pre (and the raiser is moderately deep, obv.), but your overlay on the set-mining comes from all the other garbage hands that don't flop as strong or as often, not from the AA who (unless they limp or raise too small) are playing fine.

(Sorry for the B&M hand-discussion but needed to reply on-thread.)

Stacks were for the most part 100-150BB, and they went crazy on 3,4-way pots with well-coordinate flops (AhAd on 6c7c9c, for example)