I haven't been on the forum much in years, but the funniest thing happened to me tonight. I was just playing at Gila River. It seemed pretty dead for a Friday. Moved to a 4/8 table with 2 drunk guys, 1 obviously high and drunk guy, and a couple supper-crazy-LAGgy guys. This was just about the best table I've ever played at. A lot of hands got 4-bet 6-ways pre-flop.

We were playing 8-handed. [name removed] was dealing. I folded and all 7 others limped. One guy (who was playing very badly himself, pushing hopeless hands against people he should know would call him down every time) was trying to impress the dealer and said he used to play professionally, "back when the games were good."

The part that really made me laugh was that this guy then said something about the TwoPlusTwo forums. He was telling people to check out "chip stack porn" or something like that. I don't know. He just obviously hadn't absorbed anything from the site or from any 2+2 books in his life.

I have no idea why or how, but I was surprised... shocked actually... to learn that Ft McDowell has stopped offering table service (food) in the poker room. WTF?

I didn't bother to ask, as I heard another player ask, and was told "it's out of my hands... it's all the way up to the general manager and he can't do anything about it either."

I don't know how affected they'll be by this, but I can't imagine it's going to be good. I, for one, already have a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.

Is there any reason to play a FM besides tourneys?

If playing against a bunch of 3/6 regs is your game, the the fort is your place! Kind of a shame since it's such a small place that it does have a friendlier atmosphere than CAZ but the action there sucks.

the action there sucks because the management is pretty bad. From what I understand, they used to be the place to go for big games in the phoenix area (I guess this was like 10-ish years ago)... not sure if there was no CA back then or if they just competed better.

Back when i last played there, which was around 3 years ago, food service had been temproarily suspended because of some sort of remodeling. Im not sure if they started it back up and stopped it again or its been gone all this time.

Its 100% typical fort mcdowell though. They have a bunch of regs, who will play 3/6 there no matter what, and they dont really care how appealing or unappealing they look to anyone else.

they allegedly have a $30 (no thats not a typo) max BI SL game that is pretty juicy.

1/1/2010 3-6 LHE Ft. McDowell (500)

I doubt I'll ever get revenge.

The Fort was the first place in the state to challenge the gaming laws and helped get the whole thing legal. They had a armed stand off out there at one point... It was just a old trailer house...

Anyway, yeah FM was the place for LHE games, upwards of 2000/4000 with a super regular 200/400 game. CA was the place for NL/PL pokers, they had a black chip game running very regular at one point.

And yes this was about 10-12 years ago, before the casino's (tribes) sold us poker players under the bus to get BJ and other house games aka the old $150 betting cap law, which effectively killed (drove underground and out of town) poker until the boom.

I know of a decent 1/2 NL home game in Gilbert/Chandler area with $200max buy-in, but $400 if you get felted. By the end of the night (i.e, 6am-ish), the straddle is constant and there are usually 6-7 people with over $800 on the table. Even better, the rake is a MAX of $3, and only if the pot goes to the flop AND is over $40.

PM me if you're interested. Sometimes two tables run. The game usually goes on weds and thurs at 10pm and saturdays around 9.

The Fort had the only game in town when I moved here in '97. I'd only played there a short while and regs did nothing but complain about how the room was run. I asked who the poker room manager was and got a few different answers and that's bad management right there. As soon as Gila River opened all the action went there. When Casino Arizona opened almost all of the action moved there.

The Fort is ok if you want to play 3-6, and some player on here like the tourneys The Fort runs. Otherwise I couldn't recommend it since it's really out of the way.

Anyone played at The Nuts Cardroom on 41st ave & bell? already paid their $20 annual fee and will probably start playing there soon.

There's a nearly 600-post thread in the legal forum discussing the legal status of the strip-mall card rooms in Arizona. You'll have to draw your own conclusions about if you should be playing in them*.

While they all try to structure themselves in a way that they think makes their gambling pristine, they've already charged you a membership fee, and as such, have likely broken Arizona State law.

In the meantime, you get to decide for yourself.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...rizona-596713/









*Hint: A key organizer's trial starts shortly, and his co-conspirators already took plea deals.

wow, great to know. thanks for the link!

Cliff Notes version of those 500+ posts is that strip-mall games operate openly in Phoenix, despite the operators of several of them having been hauled off to court. Those who operate games now suggest that their games meet the letter and spirit of the law because they are collectives or true social clubs or that any monies they make are independent of the gambling. This does not appear to be the opinion of the Arizona Department of Gaming, and the "Judge" Harold Lee trial - finally set for July - should draw a new line in the sand about what's legal and what's not.

In Arizona, you and I can bet on whatever we like (including poker), provided that nobody takes a cut of the action -- or as long as the person that takes a cut of the action is regulated (e.g. is the State Lottery, or has a Tribal Compact). There is no provision for regulation outside of those compacts, so you can't just go get a license or fill out paperwork.

For better or for worse, that's the law. Accept it. Work to change it. Take your chances in the strip-mall games. Play at the casinos. Your call.

what would even be the benefit of the strip mall games? reduced rake?

For the players, the benefits of playing in the strip-mall games are reduced rakes (or whatever the club calls their fees to play) and location - as most are located in neighborhoods without quick casino access.

Also, since the games are unregulated, you can play actual no-limit or pot-limit games, or play game variations not allowed in regulated rooms. Although the benefit of being allowed to play "pure" no-limit (as opposed to spread limit with a 250 or 500 cap) is debatable, since the games rarely run larger than those at CAZ or Gila.

thanks for the heads up, i'll def take it into consideration. i'm new to the live scene given the events of the 15th and was more looking at the little joints because something like CAZ is, frankly, intimidating.

Gila is half the size, and love him or hate him, with a guy like Daryl at the brush (note: Badge-wearing casino employee who's job it is to talk to people) it's not so rough to sit down at a table.

...and although it's clearly a million miles from your part of town (if you're visiting a room at 41st and Bell), the Harrah's room in Maricopa is as close to a home game as you an get in town -- but 1-2 rarely goes except on nights where they're running NLHE tournaments.

The dealers there break most of the "rules" we talk about in these forums; and it makes for a good experience.

Since the legality of these rooms is still in question, if you hold a professional license of any kind i would consider that any legal infraction you may inadvertently be charged with for being involved as a player or otherwise at those rooms could affect that license.

I had an argument in law school with someone who thought the AZ poker law made it illegal to play in a room. As opposed to running one which is clearly illegal.

It was close, it could really go either way. Your best bet would be to cooperate and probably not get charged.

It's been done to death in the other thread, but you're only running afoul of the law (IANAL, TINLA) if you're the one making benefit.

...at least as I understand it.

If a room gets busted, the players in it (since Arizona is a "must identify" state) will get run for warrants and told to go home.

The fort is also on the table if CA is a bit too intimidating.. has more of a homegamey feel.

their customer service is garbage though, and game selection is limited... but might not be too bad on a weekend just to get your feet wet.

If youre planning on playing serious live poker in the phoenix area though, youre gonna have to end up at CA most of the time sooner rather than later.

True. The Fort is a "cozy" enough room to get your feet wet in as well.

...but I think Gila offers enough game selection as long as you're a low-limit or a 1-2 player. If you need a bigger game though, you'll end up at CAZ.

i was at CA for a bit today, sat on a waiting list for the 2-3 game for about 30 minutes and only moved halfway up and then realized i was starving so i left. i'm probably going to get back in there first thing on saturday morning, looked like a ton of tourists and what not so i'm actually really excited to check it out.

does gila have a 1/2 game? I'd really rather stick wtih a 1/2 game than a 2/3 game for starting out.

Gila has one but it's only one table and you will wait even longer. Order food in the poker room at Caz.