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| Stud Discussions of various forms of stud poker. |
05-31-2012, 06:56 AM
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#1
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veteran
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Posts: 2,753
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WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
300/300/1200-2400, ~80 remain, $ is at 64, average stack is 35k.
Andrey (50k) 2  Bring in, call
4 folds, 1  , 1  .
Unknown (20k) 5  Complete 1200, call
Hero (28k) (7  7  )7  Raise
4th (9600)
Andrey 2  3  Bet
Guy 5  J  Check, call
Hero (7  7  )7  T  Check, call (?)
5th (13200)
Andrey 2  3  K  Call
Guy 5  J  3  Call
Hero (7  7  )7  T  A  Bet
6th (20400)
Andrey 2  3  K  A  Bet
Guy 5  J  3  Q  Call
Hero (7  7  )7  T  A  Q:clu b: (<-- wtf   )
Hero?
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05-31-2012, 07:47 AM
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#2
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Now with 100% more seaside views
Posts: 18,705
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
I don't think the raise->3 bet->fold outcome you'd normally be going for is good for you in the least, and this isn't really clear value either (AP is just too likely to have low spades or some other annoyingly huge hand since everything else is so dead) so this is a call.
I like fourth but I think I'd try for a CR on fifth (more equity when you oops!)
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05-31-2012, 12:56 PM
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#3
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Land of Busto
Posts: 388
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
I just raise 4th in this spot, if villain 3bets its good for getting 3 extra bets in with huge equity) or you get an extra 2 bets (1 from villain, 1 from 5J)
4th u have too much equity to not jam and 23s is peeling 4th everytime.
As played I probably raise and then check behind on the river (if not boat) as I feel like he has no spade and the only thing you are really afraid of is 45.
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05-31-2012, 12:57 PM
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#4
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Land of Busto
Posts: 388
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
by feel I mean I have logical reasonings but Im at work and don't wanna type
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05-31-2012, 01:07 PM
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#5
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: at JoeTall
Posts: 15,275
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
Even with your tournament chips depleting a bit you should still c-raise 4th. xx5J has at best 8% equity in this spot and giving xx23ss too much credit is a common mistake. xx23 doesn't have to have a flush and has to make a slightly dead gutter to make a wheel for the very top of his range.
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05-31-2012, 01:41 PM
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#6
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 399
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
put more chips in on 4th
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05-31-2012, 02:14 PM
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#7
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Land of Busto
Posts: 388
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall
Even with your tournament chips depleting a bit you should still c-raise 4th. xx5J has at best 8% equity in this spot and giving xx23ss too much credit is a common mistake. xx23 doesn't have to have a flush and has to make a slightly dead gutter to make a wheel for the very top of his range.
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What Joe says is right, the 2s the bring in and can have something like 2362 or something that you are just way way far ahead of.
On 6th I just raises because most good players would raise with low draw flush draw, or a strong high hand on 5th (2pr trips etc) in this spot just raise on 6th you have position on 7th and check behind.
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05-31-2012, 05:49 PM
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#8
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veteran
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Posts: 2,753
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
Obviously there's significant ICM concerns here making the spots different than a cash game, usually erring on the side of reducing variance.
My reasoning for not raising 4th is the same as noted in 6th, I didn't want Andrey to 3b and force the other player to fold, who with his dwindling stack will almost certainly fold to a 3b. Am I wrong in this reasoning? Greater equity taking the hand heads up vs. Andrey and exposing strength of hand vs. wanting to stick the other player for bigger bets on 5th and disguising hand better?
Thanks for the feedback.
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05-31-2012, 07:50 PM
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#9
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Land of Busto
Posts: 388
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
Your edge so huge against his range you can't call for ICM reasons. If that is the reason you called it is reaaaaaaaalllllly bad.
It's bad to do this but I wouldn't be surprised if he had 234 or a hand like A 8 23, all these hands you are crushing.
Like a lot of people would cap 3 flush babies on 3rd also.
Callings good if your goal is to disguise your hand so get in a check raise on 5th or something. But that is way more variancy then just raising 4th
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05-31-2012, 08:32 PM
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#10
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2011 $10k Stud8 Champion
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Running good under that ball cap
Posts: 5,947
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
it's close between raising 4th and c/r 5th.
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05-31-2012, 09:17 PM
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#11
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Posts: 7,621
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
6th is a raise imo.
If we raise 4th our hand is almost face up imo, and no one good is folding 4th after catching a brick with 2 bets from 3 players going in on third so it's a good spot to c/r 5th and have the other hands priced in only, likely, to draw to half.
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06-01-2012, 05:37 AM
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#12
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Loaded for bear
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 3,258
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Re: WSOP $1500 S8, Rolled up v. Andrey Pateychuk 4th and 6th St. Spots
grunching
raise 4th or c/r 5th, I prefer 4th. If you wait until 5th the other low draw may brick again and won't pay a penny but whether he peels or not on 4th you get value while far ahead, and if the cards break right you can often get a raise in on Fifth even when you do it here.
You're more likely to get the man in the middle to pay two if he doesn't see them cold in the face, which is why c/r is better than b/3b on Five. If the action goes bet-raise-fold you don't even have a cinch 3bet because a 4bet will be bad news, but if you c/r you get value when winning but won't ever have to put in 4 bets bad. [edit I see Adanthar makes the same point]
You can raise Six but since you'll usually get 3bet you need to know what the guy in the middle will do when it's two back to him for the raise to have any additional value. I think it's a call on Six for that reason. If you fill vs a flush or nutty low you'll get extra in on the river in most cases anyhow.
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