Just wondering what are some of the worst types of hands you are stealing with from 1) One to the right of the bring in 2) Two to the right of the bring in 3) Three to the right of the bring in

Obviously it depends what cards are behind and dead but let's assume it is a 4 handed game and the bring in is a solid player who never completes in this spot. I'll throw out a few example to get discussion going (assume 1/4 ante, 1/4 bring in)

1) One to right of the bring in:

(9x6s)5s

(JsTs)9s

(2x9x)Kx

(2s3s)Kx

(AxKx)Jx

(As2s)9x

Also is it ever correct to just limp here?


2) Two to right of the bring in:

(KxKx)3x with an A in between (If yes, what is the worst pair you raise? Do you ever limp?)

(3xKx)Kx with an A in between

(2s3s)7x with 2-8 in between

(5xJx)5x with 9-K in between

(5x5x)Qx with 9-Q in between

(Ks2s)As with an A in between

Any Ace door vs a 9-K


3) Three to right of the bring in:

Others can add example if they wish


Looking forward to your responses

always dependent on dead cards and table dynamic but in general:

1) hand 2 and hand 5 i think are playable as a steal because the cards work together, the others i would often ditch but maybe thats too tight. stealing is something i need to work on.

2) hands 1 and 2, i don't play pairs/many hands when an ace is yet to act and that keeps me out of trouble, but idk if that is the right thing
hand 3, i think that is ok as a steal but not looking to get too deep into the hand if called
hand 4 i think that's ok, i'd prefer the buried J to be above the door cards of opponents and you want the bringin door to be lower than your split pair, pretty much mandatory here
hand 5 yeah i think the same applies as hand 4
hand 6 i will generally go for it with that hand

3) i think you just want to play good hands, razz hands and 3 flushes/3 straights 3 to the right bringin 4 handed

and dont in general try to steal through multiple low cards, and if someone already limped/completed, dont bother stealing, just play good hands

JsTs9s isn't a "steal" hand - it's 3 to a straight flush - pretty solid in fact

Off the top of my head, category 5 in Ray Zee's book? Not great by good enough to play, especially in opening to the right of the BI

Not in stud8

yeah in my experience it goes bad very quickly

in normal stud you might go to 5th if you brick but u pretty much have to be super live and catch perfect on 4th to go from there when multiway, and even then you can get in really bad shape if you don't hit on 5th because of the other players likely to have lows and you might even be behind someone else going high

i guess that makes it better to have it in HU pots, and then you dont have to have a hand and can just represent the pair when against low doors

In general, when stealing in stud/8, the "it depends" part is more complex that in flop games.

Let's take your first example (9x 6s)5s. Pretty reasonable steal hand, but consider not only the obvious: a) how sticky is the BI, will he contest steals or try to resteal and b) how big is the ante? and c) how live are your cards?

But more important, what's been folded in front of you. Lots of cards of your suit AND almost no low cards? Unless the BI is a total nit, fold and go on to the next hand.

If he's not a maniac and he raises after you complete, you can fold, but what if he calls? What will you rep depending on what falls on 4th?

Main point is there is a lot more information available in steal situations in stud than in HE.

I mentioned it was a four handed game. Assume that when we are to the right of the BI the importance of the other two cards shouldn't be heavily weighted. In fact, let's say for arguments sake that neither you or your opponent can see the dead cards in that example. Also I mentioned that you are playing against an expert player who defends/raises a balanced range. Hope this helps answer the other questions.

where is this game?

i've always wondered this question btw. There's no source that tells you to raise x%, open call y%, fold z%. I think because the bring-in can't do anything, there should be a very high open limp range in this game.

I tried to formulate an answer a while ago, but I gave up. If you want to devise an answer, I think the below is a good starting point.

hero: ** | 9c
villain: ** | 9s

1) pair plus (169/1225, 13.80%), 63.15% equity
2) flush draw (66/1225, 5.39%), 55.55% equity
3) "(56-58, 67-68, 78)!cc | 9c" (90/1225, 7.35%), 51.67% equity
4) ace highs, no fd (165/1225, 13.47%), 51.05% equity
5) other over cards, no fd (90/1225, 7.35%), 49.87% equity
6) "(6t, 7t-7j, 8t-8q)!cc | 9c" (90/1225, 7.35%), 49.54% equity
7) other two babies, no fd (225/1225, 18.38%), 45.96% equity
8) total trash (330/1225, 26.94%), 44.01% equity

Hero opens…
1 to 1 (169/1225, 13.80%), 22+, 9* | 9c
1 to 2 (235/1225, 19.18%), 22+, 9*,cc | 9c
1 to 3 (325/1225, 26.53%), 22+, 9*,cc, (56-58, 67-68, 78) | 9c
1 to 4 (490/1225, 40.00%), 22+, 9*,cc, (56-58, 67-68, 78), a[2-k] | 9c
1 to 5 (580/1225, 47.35%), 22+, 9*,cc, (56-58, 67-68, 78), a$L, [t-a][t-a] | 9c
1 to 6 (670/1225, 54.69%), 22+, 9*,cc, (56-58, 67-68, 78), a$L, [t-a][t-a],(6t, 7t-7j, 8t-8q) | 9c
1 to 7 (895/1225, 73.06%), 22+, 9*,cc, [t-a][t-a],(6t, 7t-7j, 8t-8q), $L$L | 9c
1 to 8 (1225/1225, 100.00%), ** | 9c

Hero's range equity when...
H) Villain defends 100%
a) 63.15% b) 61.09% c) 58.34% d) 55.92% e) 55.01% f) 54.36% g) 52.13% h) 50.00%
G) Villain defends 73.06%
a) 60.85% b) 58.70% c) 56.22% d) 53.70% e) 52.76% f) 52.05% g) 50.00% h) 47.87%
F) Villain defends 54.69%
a) 58.51% b) 56.73% c) 54.13% d) 51.68% e) 50.74% f) 50.00% g) 47.95% h) 45.64%
E) Villain defends 47.35%
a) 57.77% b) 55.93% c) 53.37% d) 50.87% e) 50.00% f) 49.26% g) 47.24% h) 44.99%
D) Villain defends 40.00%
a) 57.35% b) 55.20% c) 52.58% d) 50.00% e) 49.13% f) 48.32% g) 46.30% h) 44.08%
C) Villain defends 26.53%
a) 54.38% b) 52.56% c) 50.00% d) 47.42% e) 46.63% f) 45.87% g) 43.78% h) 41.66%
B) Villain defends 19.18%
a) 51.67% b) 50.00% c) 47.44% d) 44.80% e) 44.07% f) 43.27% g) 41.30% h) 38.91%
A) Villain defends 13.80%
a) 50.00% b) 48.33% c) 45.62% d) 42.65% e) 42.23% f) 41.49% g) 39.15% h) 36.85%

X) bovada: $3 ante, $5 bring-in, $11 pot size
Y) merge: $1 ante, $2 bring-in, $4 pot size

Hero Folds + Hero Raises && Villain Folds + Hero Raises && Villain Defends
AaX) (0.8620*-3)+(0.1380*0.8620*8)+(0.1380*0.1380*(0.5000*26-10-3))
AaY) ... etc ...

some more data:

In short handed stud you should steal less but a quarter ante is pretty big. Thus I would probably be raising all of these except for the 29K hand.

By the way I'm not sure you can be two to right of the bringin and have two people in between

You should steal less often from each position, but you will be in steal positions more often.

this

I don't understand the picture.

It's the famous mind-blown/head explode gif:

So what does that mean in response to my statement?

I was thinking that while the antes in a shorthanded game are lower, which would argue for less "stealing", you will be in the "stealing" position one or two to the right of the bringin much more often, so the prime "stealing" situation will come up much more often.

Right. Yeah this is correct in that it is more frequent, but it's not actually going to be a higher % of your hands from when in those positions (2nd last to act and last to act) for 4-max, than 8-max.
But yeah, it's a paradox.

its too hard to pick hands for bluffs. i mean real bluffs where you cant call a reraise.
just pick spots to do it. usually certain players give off enough info for you to make good decisions on bluffing unrelated to your hand.